Scottish Parliament debate ecigs.

[robby]

An interesting insight. It`s the Health and Sports committee but interesting. It`s the first part of the video.

[DiscoDes]

I Katherine, she's such a good advocate!

[Ron]

Posted 24th November 2014 

Scottish MPs were informed that “Electronic cigarettes offer a huge potential benefit...a huge public health prize” during a Health and Sport Committee meeting at the Scottish Parliament.
Despite some overtly paranoid and hysterical comments the balance of the contributions were very favourable towards vaping.

John Britton, director of the UK Centre for Tobacco Control Studies, embodied a common sense approach when informing Holyrood’s health committee that nicotine offers no more danger than caffeine.

Chaired by Richard Lyle MSP, the proceedings began with him asking for clarification on the contents of e-liquid – making reference to Jeremy Mean’s prior claim that “we don’t know what’s in them”.

Katherine Devlin, representing the trade body ECITA, listed out the ingredients we are all familiar with. She highlighted the pharmaceutical quality of the ingredients and the lengths gone to in order to ensure safety, noting that there are still steps to be taken. She said: “We are working on producing an emissions standard in conjunction with the British Standards Institute. It is something we should have done before today.”

Of note are three further comments she made which will impact on the industry as a whole. “We absolutely support an age restriction. Retailers say that without a mandated restriction it is very hard to achieve through self-regulation,” she informed the committee before adding, “We think nicotine free products being left outside of legislation is a mistake.”

With reference to the many small producers of liquids and potential legislation, Katherine Devlin said: “We need to push the standards on them. There should be no product out there containing nicotine without child resistance caps.”

Both Devlin and Britton cautioned against excessive legislation. “We have to be careful we don’t do more harm than good,” said Devlin.

“It is very important I think when legislating and controlling the inevitable abuses of the market that will come with electronic cigarettes, and the inherent risks within the products which we still know relatively little about – it is important to manage those risks, but not in a way that throws the baby out with the bath water, because there is a huge potential public health prize in these products,” Britton added.

Doctor Richard Simpson MSP called for a European-wide research program but Devlin cautioned that our experience to date is that the EU has been far from constructive when looking at data and any research would need to be clearly thought out in advance.

Highlighting the wealth of information already at our disposal, John Britton pointed out “we know a great deal about the long-term effects of nicotine from studies of oral tobacco in Scandinavia. Over decades of use we know a lot about the risk potential or the pattern of risk in lifetime users as opposed to non-lifetime users. And while I can’t say there is no risk, the risk is very, very low.” He also cited the ASH UK annual surveys and the work carried out by Professor Robert West.

When looking at the potential to ban vaping from public spaces, no one spoke out in support of legislation apart from Claire McDermott, a tobacco control policy officer. Concern was raised that vapers should not be legislated against as though they were still smokers and positive stories were relayed regarding the success of allowing vaping in hospitals, mental health institutions and Guernsey Prison.

John Britton pointed out that the smoking ban was introduced to protect people who work in those places and that although the evidence on e-cig use is that it does release some nicotine and toxic chemicals the levels are extremely low. Paraphrasing Robert West, he said quitting smoking is like being in a nightclub when the fire breaks out – the exit isn’t important as long as it leads out.

[charliehorse]

I'm actually stunned by this - a good level headed discussion with some great points put forward and most people ready and willing to listen.
There may be hope yet

[lal]

Thanks Robby, have sent to our local tobacco alliance.

[Deleted]

We're lucky, we actually have a Gov that listens to its public, unlike Westminster, and is why 45% of the population voted for Independence.

[buggritt]

Really???????
You can't be sober.

[Deleted]

Nov 28, 2014 17:13:02 GMT buggritt said:

Really???????
You can't be sober.

Very Sober 

[Deleted]

Nov 28, 2014 15:49:21 GMT car147 said:

We're lucky, we actually have a Gov that listens to its public, unlike Westminster, and is why 45% of the population voted for Independence.

If you was independent (I like to call it cake and eat it) a few years ago and that place called Westminster wasn't around to bail your banks out, you're be bankrupt. We're Kind like that, you're welcome....!

i wonder if they will record the "what the f**k we going do about the tax revenue loss" meeting. Or maybe Scotland don't need to have that meeting, see above. 

I done an hour and it looked to be going round in circles in the end so could do no more. My view on the hour i watched;

Ban ecigs for under 18, spend the money on research of what we are inhaling, not meetings talking about it, release that data and let the adults make thier own choice what they do to their body. 

[charliehorse]

Nov 29, 2014 22:06:47 GMT @letsavit said:

Nov 28, 2014 15:49:21 GMT car147 said:

We're lucky, we actually have a Gov that listens to its public, unlike Westminster, and is why 45% of the population voted for Independence.

If you was independent (I like to call it cake and eat it) a few years ago and that place called Westminster wasn't around to bail your banks out, you're be bankrupt. We're Kind like that, you're welcome....!

i wonder if they will record the "what the f**k we going do about the tax revenue loss" meeting. Or maybe Scotland don't need to have that meeting, see above. 

I done an hour and it looked to be going round in circles in the end so could do no more. My view on the hour i watched;

Ban ecigs for under 18, spend the money on research of what we are inhaling, not meetings talking about it, release that data and let the adults make thier own choice what they do to their body. 

If Scotland was Independent all the Banks would have moved there head offices to England - at least that's what I heard all the time in the run up to the referendum ..... so we wouldn't have had any banks ..... so we wouldn't have any need for a bail out.

80% of all losses generated by RBS came from their London based investment banking division. That's a pretty verifiable fact.

Also in the case of RBS, roughly speaking 90% of its operations are in England and 10% are in Scotland.

Back on topic - For a bunch of MP's discussing vaping, I thought it could have been a lot lot worse.

In general the majority of them seemed to be interested and willing to listen.

Yes, they did go round in circles a bit, but it was MP's, their not exactly known for a straight answer lol.

[Deleted]

Nov 30, 2014 15:40:01 GMT charliehorse said:

Nov 29, 2014 22:06:47 GMT @letsavit said:

If you was independent (I like to call it cake and eat it) a few years ago and that place called Westminster wasn't around to bail your banks out, you're be bankrupt. We're Kind like that, you're welcome....!

i wonder if they will record the "what the f**k we going do about the tax revenue loss" meeting. Or maybe Scotland don't need to have that meeting, see above. 

I done an hour and it looked to be going round in circles in the end so could do no more. My view on the hour i watched;

Ban ecigs for under 18, spend the money on research of what we are inhaling, not meetings talking about it, release that data and let the adults make thier own choice what they do to their body. 

If Scotland was Independent all the Banks would have moved there head offices to England - at least that's what I heard all the time in the run up to the referendum ..... so we wouldn't have had any banks ..... so we wouldn't have any need for a bail out.

80% of all losses generated by RBS came from their London based investment banking division. That's a pretty verifiable fact.

Also in the case of RBS, roughly speaking 90% of its operations are in England and 10% are in Scotland.

Back on topic - For a bunch of MP's discussing vaping, I thought it could have been a lot lot worse.

In general the majority of them seemed to be interested and willing to listen.

Yes, they did go round in circles a bit, but it was MP's, their not exactly known for a straight answer lol.

A quote from a letter sent to Mr Fred Goodwin, the then leader of RBS.

 "It is in Scottish interests for RBS to be successful, and I would like to offer any assistance my office can provide. Good luck with the bid. Yours for Scotland, Alex."

That was in 2007 and that bid took the bank down, times was good then, in 2014 it become Londons problem, funny that.....

anyway politics are not really for a vapors forum and the "we're" should be we're vapors, not country's. 

[charliehorse]

Nov 30, 2014 23:04:44 GMT @letsavit said:

Nov 30, 2014 15:40:01 GMT charliehorse said:

If Scotland was Independent all the Banks would have moved there head offices to England - at least that's what I heard all the time in the run up to the referendum ..... so we wouldn't have had any banks ..... so we wouldn't have any need for a bail out.

80% of all losses generated by RBS came from their London based investment banking division. That's a pretty verifiable fact.

Also in the case of RBS, roughly speaking 90% of its operations are in England and 10% are in Scotland.

Back on topic - For a bunch of MP's discussing vaping, I thought it could have been a lot lot worse.

In general the majority of them seemed to be interested and willing to listen.

Yes, they did go round in circles a bit, but it was MP's, their not exactly known for a straight answer lol.

A quote from a letter sent to Mr Fred Goodwin, the then leader of RBS.

 "It is in Scottish interests for RBS to be successful, and I would like to offer any assistance my office can provide. Good luck with the bid. Yours for Scotland, Alex."

That was in 2007 and that bid took the bank down, times was good then, in 2014 it become Londons problem, funny that.....

anyway politics are not really for a vapors forum and the "we're" should be we're vapors, not country's. 

I thought that when it all went wrong it became the UK's problem, not London's considering it was a taxpayer bailout and we all pay tax.
But your talking about 2014, the lead up to the referendum I take it. 

Ultimately the deal was a massive failure (to put it mildly) but Salmond wasn't the only politician supporting it.
A deal that was given regulatory approval by the labour government in power at the time. And Fred didn't take up the offer of assistance anyway.


After being awarded a knighthood by Tony Blair in 2004, Goodwin was an adviser and confidante of Gordon Brown before and after the ABN deal.

And it was Alastair Darling, the man who was in charge of our financial system in the lead up to the credit crisis, and who ultimately signed off on the deal, that was one of the first in line to publicly condemn the decision to strip Fred of his knighthood.

Now, Salmond certainly isn't squeaky clean, and along with the offer to Fred the Shred he's been known to try and cosy up to Rupert Murdoch and Donald Trump along with many others, but Blair, Brown, Cameron et all have done more than their fair share of the same, if not worse.

To have the cake in the first place and not just the little piece that we are given would be nice, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Back to vaping now ?

[Deleted]

Yea back to vaping, Im bored now.

[lal]

OK, so I shared with public health colleagues. What did they send me in return??? A daily mail link about that dodgy Japanese research. I give up! Actually I lie. I don't give up. I'm quite enjoying my one woman against the machine role!

[gill2009]

Dec 4, 2014 20:53:47 GMT lal said:

OK, so I shared with public health colleagues. What did they send me in return??? A daily mail link about that dodgy Japanese research. I give up! Actually I lie. I don't give up. I'm quite enjoying my one woman against the machine role!