JayJ
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Post by JayJ on Jun 13, 2018 13:43:13 GMT
68% voted to ban them. Rant all you like about leaders, politcians etc. These people were offered a choice, and made it. It's called democracy. Good point and well made. I had started to think of all the reasons why it went that way, but in the end the simple summary is as you state - the people voted. Sad. The problem with that though is what percentage of that 68% are vapers, I'd hazard a guess at none. They're probably not even smokers. The vote in this when it gets to the point is probably more related to smokers/vapers vs non smokers/non vapers who the vote doesn't really relate to. It might be democratic but for me in it's loosest definition.
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DaveJ
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Wood Wizard of Oz
Locked down at home.
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Post by DaveJ on Jun 13, 2018 22:33:01 GMT
Yes JayJ I agree there are certainly problems with that vote. Another is that, as far as I know, it was not a compulsory vote requiring all possible to vote - meaning only those who are sufficiently motivated attend to cast a vote. Which means, as is so often the case, only those with vested interests or very strong beliefs bother ... and I'd say there were a bunch of "anti's" who swayed the numbers. But that is how their system works, warts and all. In this case, I think the antis worked the system best and, as a result, carried the day. And don't think I actually agree with that result though. In my opinion, it is a backward step for vapers there.
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sydsut
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Vaping Is Good For You... I Vaped, I Saw, I Concurred.
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Post by sydsut on Jun 14, 2018 0:03:16 GMT
I don't know how much Mixing Your Own E-liquid is done in the States but I expect that to skyrocket in the near future. A crazy situation all round.
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Post by domesticextremist on Jun 14, 2018 2:52:31 GMT
Good point and well made. I had started to think of all the reasons why it went that way, but in the end the simple summary is as you state - the people voted. Sad. The problem with that though is what percentage of that 68% are vapers, I'd hazard a guess at none. They're probably not even smokers. The vote in this when it gets to the point is probably more related to smokers/vapers vs non smokers/non vapers who the vote doesn't really relate to. It might be democratic but for me in it's loosest definition. Yes. We don't know the turnout but it was a local election and, if anything like the UK, probably pitifully low. I'm not sure we can call it democracy to allow a simple majority vote on taking away rights from a small, niche minority. It would take a very enlightened electorate to produce a result other than the one seen. Such votes are simply the tyranny of the majority. True democracy also respects the rights of the minorities too.
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jtc
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Post by jtc on Jun 14, 2018 5:00:53 GMT
Democracy 😂😂😂
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sydsut
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Post by sydsut on Jun 14, 2018 10:58:27 GMT
Democracy only works if there is fairness and honesty, the American public have been outrageously lied to by it's own governing bodies, local, state and the Federal Government. As Trump has shown, just keep on lying and the electorate will believe it. I despair of this so called educated world we live in.
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Post by domesticextremist on Jun 14, 2018 13:00:16 GMT
Democracy only works if there is fairness and honesty, the American public have been outrageously lied to by it's own governing bodies, local, state and the Federal Government. As Trump has shown, just keep on lying and the electorate will believe it. I despair of this so called educated world we live in. Well, that's a different argument. I'm neither for nor against Trump, but in that election there was a largeish turnout and, importantly, a choice. FWIW I think as many people voted against Hilary as voted for Trump. My argument is that voting on matters abut which most people have nothing to gain or lose, for example, banning fluffy dice hanging from car mirrors. Only the people that like them (very few) have an interest in the matter, the majority have no opinion but can easily be swayed to vote against with some tenuous pretext such as "it causes distraction". Of those who even bother to vote, they are almost sure to vote against because the outcome doesn't affect them, which is the tyranny of the majority masquerading as democracy.
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