vapist
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Post by vapist on Jul 23, 2012 12:07:47 GMT
Ok, im At my computer so am able to make a proper reply to this thread. First and foremost i must point out that the warranty that comes with the provari is a provape warranty, and as such they 9 times out of 10 will want the unit back to see if the problem has been caused by misuse from the user or if it is a manufacturing problem, if it can be fixed or if it needs replacing.
As a re-seller i can only replace the item if i have it in stock, but more importantly, if i simply replace everyones unit when there is an issue and i send it back to provape and it turns out to be a problem from miss-use or user error then where does that leave me??
I have had 3 complaints about the provaris since i started selling them. 1 was from a customer who said it would not fire, and assured me they had been vaping along time and that they knew the product was faulty. It was returned to me (at my expence) checked and it was working perfect! the customer was using the wrong batteries!! in our conversations prior to returning it to me i was assured they were using genuine IMR batteries, turns out, they wasnt (the batteries were from another very well known vendor) i also paid for the return shipping. The second was a complaint that 'anything that is attatched is very wobbly' which i couldent understand how this could be the case given the provaris 510 connection is solidly built. I asked the customer to email provape as i did with sandra to see if they could troubleshoot the issue. It turns out the customer haddent tightened his attomizers down enough, and now its working perfectly. problem solved with a direct email and no cost. Then we have the OPs case. which is an intermitant problem and i was told i would have to use it a while to see the problem for myself. Now rather than the OP sending the item to me and me using it to see the issue for myself, i thought it be much easier for her to explain the problem to provape (who may have heard of a similar issue and know an easy fix) and then depending on what they say go from there. Now if provape say its been dropped or its a problem caused by the user then they will decide what is next. If its a manufacturing fault they will repair or if its a problem that cannot be repaired then they will replace. If its a replacement, and i have the item in stock, i can replace the unit from stock and i will then put the one from provape into our stock. And the customer will be refunded the post to provape. Now lets say i did have the item in stock, and simply replaced it from stock, and i send to provape and they fix the item and return it to me...I then have a refurbished unit, its not new, and could not sell it as such, which is why we dont replace from stock unless the unit has been returned and provape have decided if its a repair or replace. if its a replace, and i have the model in stock i can replace, if not in stock then the customer has to wait for it to be shipped from provape. No two issues are the same and each issue will be delt with accordingly. Im not an unreasonable guy by any means and if theres a problem i want to do what we can to rectify. But to expect a replacement unit without it being looked atis a tad unreasonable. I am not an electrician and certainly not qualified by provape to carry out repairs or make determinations on their behalf as to any issues that may arise. Therefore faulty items must be sent to Provape.
I hope this clears up a few things. we have sold many provaris, and had very few problems. Out of the three we have had, only one has had to be returned, which i dont feel is too bad at all, and if it needs replacing rather than fixing, we will replace it if the model is in stock, and pay the cost of shipping.
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lynwlt
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Post by lynwlt on Jul 23, 2012 13:59:41 GMT
It depends upon what Provape put on the Customs Declaration when they post it back to Sandra, I've a feeling although I may have dreamt this . . . that if it's a repair then duty/PF handling won't apply. But I'll happily stand corrected, going by what Lynda has said. But, as it's a brand new defective item, wouldn't Distance Selling Regulations apply. ??? That's correct in principle. However, HMRC are unlikely to take the sender's word at face value since that would open up a whole new way of by-passing payment of duty. This is one reason to keep receipts for transactions and copies of communications if you are importing a high value item.
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Takshaka
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Post by Takshaka on Jul 23, 2012 18:55:42 GMT
First and foremost i must point out that the warranty that comes with the provari is a provape warranty, and as such they 9 times out of 10 will want the unit back to see if the problem has been caused by misuse from the user or if it is a manufacturing problem, if it can be fixed or if it needs replacing. vapist You (and all vendors with the same policy) need to make it clear on your sales pages that if there are any faults with the goods you are selling that the customer will need to return the item to USA and that this may incur postage and customs charges along with the time the whole process will take. It is reasonable for a customer to assume that if there is a problem with an item purchased from a UK vendor then it will be fixed/replaced or refunded by that vendor. If this is not the case then it should be made very clear so that customers can make an informed decision about their purchase and who they purchase from.
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vapist
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Post by vapist on Jul 23, 2012 21:13:57 GMT
First and foremost i must point out that the warranty that comes with the provari is a provape warranty, and as such they 9 times out of 10 will want the unit back to see if the problem has been caused by misuse from the user or if it is a manufacturing problem, if it can be fixed or if it needs replacing. vapist You (and all vendors with the same policy) need to make it clear on your sales pages that if there are any faults with the goods you are selling that the customer will need to return the item to USA and that this may incur postage and customs charges along with the time the whole process will take. It is reasonable for a customer to assume that if there is a problem with an item purchased from a UK vendor then it will be fixed/replaced or refunded by that vendor. If this is not the case then it should be made very clear so that customers can make an informed decision about their purchase and who they purchase from. We will now be adding such information to our website. Thank you for pointing this out. Vapist
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Post by Sandra (aka Chillax) on Jul 24, 2012 7:33:07 GMT
First and foremost i must point out that the warranty that comes with the provari is a provape warranty, and as such they 9 times out of 10 will want the unit back to see if the problem has been caused by misuse from the user or if it is a manufacturing problem, if it can be fixed or if it needs replacing. vapist You (and all vendors with the same policy) need to make it clear on your sales pages that if there are any faults with the goods you are selling that the customer will need to return the item to USA and that this may incur postage and customs charges along with the time the whole process will take. It is reasonable for a customer to assume that if there is a problem with an item purchased from a UK vendor then it will be fixed/replaced or refunded by that vendor. If this is not the case then it should be made very clear so that customers can make an informed decision about their purchase and who they purchase from. I wish this had been clear to me before Carl you say ''As a re-seller i can only replace the item if i have it in stock, but more importantly, if i simply replace everyones unit when there is an issue and i send it back to provape and it turns out to be a problem from miss-use or user error then where does that leave me??'' Where does that leave you? With all due respect in a much better position than the customer. Your first return, was a battery issue, you solved this without a replacement. Your second complaint turned out to be user error, that Provari could of been returned to you and you would of noticed nothing wrong with the 510 connection and informed the customer. Then there is me, there has been no replacement, and as you are well aware, its unlikey there will be, Provape will fix the problem and it will be returned to me, you in my opinion should of dealt with the situation by taking the front seat, the more I think about the whole thing, the more deflated I feel, you are in business, sometimes these things crop up, does'nt matter if your selling Provari's or drip tips, I believe you should of ensured customer confidence, sorted my problem out, by either having my Provari back, testing it and contacting Provape or asking me to send it to you to send on to Provape. What happens if I get stung by duty? What will happen then? How do I go about getting my shipping money from Provape? As the supplier, you should be ensuring I know these things. Does this mean that the only issue you can help any customer with is when they use the wrong batteries? Is it going to be that if any problems a customer has that your going to be asking them to contact Provape and they will have to be alone in dealing with the problem? Your above post regarding customer complaints leaves me more concerned than I originally was, there are in your words only three complaints, one you solved the other two customers you just put onto Provape. When someone decides to go into business they have to accept that they may have to take the odd knock now and then to gain more respect and customer satisfaction.
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womble
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Post by womble on Jul 24, 2012 7:40:42 GMT
Since I read Vapists message I've been wondering what to write, feeling very unhappy about the situation. I expected a lot better service than that.
The very reason I bought a provari from the UK, was to have UK support and the reason I bought from Vapist, was because he was a relatively new vendor and I thought it would help him and also because he was on the scene, so I knew I would be looked after.
The least I would expect is for me to send it to you if there is a problem and then you send it to Provape. The least.
The best companies will refund postage to themselves if there is a real problem with the unit. These are the people I will shop with by preference.
At the moment I'm kicking myself not to have checked what your return terms were when I bought it.
Treat others as you yourself want to be treated.
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womble
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Post by womble on Jul 24, 2012 7:47:38 GMT
The best companies will refund postage to themselves if there is a real problem with the unit. These are the people I will shop with by preference. Sorry, I've just seen you've said you will do this if it has a real problem when it gets to Provape, or I think you did, it's a little unclear. I think a proper set of terms and conditions on returns of Provape stuff would be good, as you have said you will do.
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jayjay
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Post by jayjay on Jul 24, 2012 7:59:19 GMT
I'm with you sandra. Every buisness has to make money. I think everyone accepts that. If they don't, they fail. Its a simple equation. However, vapist wording in his reply has a mild aroma of... his own interest slightly to far ahead of yours. Is that not an unreasonable suggestion. Ultimatley he has only your issue to have dealt with as you say. To be a unfortunate as you have been is bad. You have sucked up all the pain and cost. That is poor service. I looked into your situation yesterday and spoke to the third supplier who are selling provaris. They stated in case things go wrong, the customer returns the product to them. If they can't fix it, they ship it to provari and pay that cost. They will then provide a replacement loan item if they have, what they have in stock. I suggest that is a minimum to expect.
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ragjoy
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Post by ragjoy on Jul 24, 2012 12:55:31 GMT
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lynwlt
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Post by lynwlt on Jul 24, 2012 14:21:14 GMT
Couldn't agree more, Raggy. We have some superb vendors who cater to our every whim, talk us through our occasional lapses in intelligence, and generally treat us with great respect and kindness. (ignoring the traumatic relationship between blakey and Jason.... ) But this is a competetive market now and success depends upon providing excellent customer service. Anything less just won't cut the mustard. The 'kudos' of selling high value mods without a sound warranty process in place is akin to shooting oneself in the foot. I suspect, until now, we vapers have been very lax in asserting our rights under the Sale of Goods act.
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ragjoy
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Post by ragjoy on Jul 24, 2012 14:35:22 GMT
Couldn't agree more, Raggy. We have some superb vendors who cater to our every whim, talk us through our occasional lapses in intelligence, and generally treat us with great respect and kindness. (ignoring the traumatic relationship between blakey and Jason.... ) But this is a competetive market now and success depends upon providing excellent customer service. Anything less just won't cut the mustard. The 'kudos' of selling high value mods without a sound warranty process in place is akin to shooting oneself in the foot. I suspect, until now, we vapers have been very lax in asserting our rights under the Sale of Goods act. the kudos point is great lyn as i imagine selling the provari is fairly low in profit but the kudos is very big. i know i keep saying im going to get a provari and last night i was ready too press the button, then i found there was none in stock and for now i will hang fire. i dont know how many vapist has sold but he says 3 faulty ones (two of which were not faulty and one pending) so far. i take this too mean the fail rate is very low, therefore i would expect an identical replacement from the next batch without question or a full refund. if theres nowt wrong when you get it back it will still sell for a £30 loss so every ones happy, the vendor has lost his commission/sale fee on this one but his rep is still solid. raggy...........
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vapist
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Post by vapist on Jul 24, 2012 16:25:42 GMT
I think most are missing the point here. And All the facts. The facts are this. A) I could not replace the item, there was non in stock...and im still waiting for stock to arrive.
B) I Did not tell the customer in question to send the item themselves to Provape, I would have been more than happy to do this. The customer was advised to return the item to Provape by Provape.
C) If the customer had returned the item to me, it would still have to be returned to provape, which would have made the whole process longer sending it to me, and then me sending it on to provape.
D) I was unaware the customer had incured cost in sending it back, I was made aware of this on this thread! Had the customer sent it to me I would have paid the postage to return it to me special delivery, and the postage to send it back to provape, and if it proved to me a manufacturing fault, recouped these fees from provape.
E) The fail rate on the Provari from New is VERY low, and as far as im aware, alot of issues can be delt with without the need for return via step by step instruction. Given the Item had as the customer says an intermitant fault, it seemed best for the customer to explain the issue direct with someone who was likely to be able to offer the right solutions to the problem, hence me providing the contact details, before returning the unit to ME.
F) At no time did i tell the customer you must deal direct with provape yourself, or to send the unit back to provape yourself, this was a desision taken by the customer.
If the item had have been returned to me, I would have checked it (which by the sounds of things could have taken a few days for me to see the issue first hand, and then still the item would have had to have been sent to provape for them to diagnose, repair or replace. If the customer had no access to a PV, i would have sent my personal unit to be used at my expence while the unit was being repaird/replaced, and paid for the return of my personal unit along with the shipping cost to return the repaired/replacement unit.
The Fact that i did not receive back the unit and the customer sent the unit to provape has ment the above did not happen.
I will happily pay the customer for the postage to return the item AND any customs charge that may be incurred, as i would have paid these myself had the item been returned to me.
The Warranty offered to the customer on the Provari is ultimately a Provape warranty and as such Provape will make the determination as to weather a unit is repaired or replaced. If it is a replacement, we can replace the unit once provape have confirmed that a replacement is needed AND we have the item in stock to be able to replace it. If it is a repair, then repairs will be carried out by Provape. Im also unaware of any vendor that is authorised to carry out warranty repairs on behalf of Provape.
Im sorry if the customer has received a faulty unit, if thats what has turned out to be the issue, and im sorry that the unit had to be returned to the manufacturer. The fact remains that i would be unable to replace the Item without it going back to them for diagnosis, and by the customer sending it direct rather than to me first means the issue can be rectified slightly quicker. If it turns out the unit needs replacing, I can replace the unit If stock has arrived when provape have confirmed the outcome of their diagnosis.
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Post by Sandra (aka Chillax) on Jul 24, 2012 17:09:57 GMT
When I emailed you to say that I need to send my Mini back you said, before you send it back email Provape and they will TELL YOU AND ME WHAT TO DO NEXT. I kept you in touch with each email between myself and Provape, a copy of each email Provape sent me I forwarded onto you, at NO point did you say you would send it back for me or cover any postage for me, you were well aware Provape wanted it back, you stayed silent on it even confirming the address for me to send it to. Customs duties were mentioned in this thread before your very first reply, only now are you choosing to offer to pay them if I get done. How can you be unaware I incured costs sending it back?
Re-read your above post and your original post and you will notice contradictions, you told me and another customer to email Provape.
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ragjoy
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Post by ragjoy on Jul 24, 2012 17:10:24 GMT
with the greatest respect vapist if i buy the top of the range anything and it doesent work as it should (bearing in mind also that this buyer already has a provari i think) be replaced or refunded on the spot ish. never mind provape will take a look, in fact she could just reject it within 14 days and have refunded anyway under distance selling rules i believe. im really not actually just digging at you with my comments but online sellers on the whole who take this sort of stance. you sold it, either you replace or you refund no ifs and buts or T&Cs.
raggy.............
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vapist
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Post by vapist on Jul 24, 2012 18:07:09 GMT
Sandra, I advised you to contact provape to see if they could troubleshoot the problem without the need to send it back to me to test and then send to provape. If they were able to sort the problem by troubleshooting via email, then theres no need for you to be without the unit. As it happens they advised you to send it back to them. Again, I at not time stated you must deal with them direct. Also i was not aware of any arrangements provape had made with you direct about returning, if they would reimburse you if the item was indeed faulty, and as i said i was not aware you had incurred the charge until i was pointed by you to this thread. I was 'Well aware' of nothing other than what you had told me. I have never had to send any items back, so I was not aware of the proceedure that provape go through. If you had returned it to me, i would have sent it to provape a couple of days after recieving it back after i had had a chance to test the unit.
The bottom line is the unit needed to go back to provape, if you had have sent it to me, i would have done this, however you sent it yourself direct. (which is probably better anyway from a view that it would get there quicker). If you wish to supply me with both the postage reciept and customs invoice (should you receive one) I will happily re-imburse you. If you wish to speak to me i will PM you my contact number.
@ Raggy Your comments to me do seem like a 'Dig' On this occasion the customer did not ask for a refund, nor would one be forthcoming until the unit had been looked at to determine the problem. And incase you had not read earlier, even if i wanted to replace the item, which again would not happen until it had been looked at by provape I HAD NO STOCK avalible to do this. Lets say the customer had dropped the unit down a flight of stairs or somthing, do you really think i should refund someone for misuse/neglect? come on m8 get real. I would obviously want the unit checked before any such refund or the unit replaced, and i or provape have not checked the unit to date therefore no refund or replacement has been made. Now as ive already stated before, If it is a Manufacturing fault, and provape deem it best the unit is replaced rather than repaired, i can then replace the item from stock, IF stock is avalible.
Again if the customer wishes to contact me they are free to do so regarding this issue.
Vapist
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