Quick comment on todays EU TPD meeting

[AnnaLaw]

I've been glued to the 'public' EU presentation today and e-cigs were mentioned by a number of Committee members.

The main reason for objecting to banning any useful strength was that they can help smokers quit.
Borgia said that 2 mg in 0.5 ml was the same as the nicotine from a cigarette (note to Borgia - we don't 'smoke' one in 5 minutes)
I'm calling him Borgia as the Linda who spoke for the TPD called the one non-pharma, non-ANTZ 'stakeholder' a Goliath because he was the sole tobacco rep. No ecig or snus reps.
Why they are dangerous by Linda Madwatsit.
1.They irratate the throat
2. We don't know what's in them
3. Some contain irresponsibly high quantities of nicotine
4. If you have a bottle in the fridge you could accidentally drink it
5. Users have no control over the amount of nicotine so it will build up in their bodies until the lose consceuosness from a nicotine ID.

Also mentioned, the 2 UK reports expected soon (MHRA and NICE) which will regualte them as medicines. I think what that answer was anyway.
Tomorow's meeting is secret and includes the 1st vote.

I know that ecigs with any nicotine are banned in Canada, or so some say, and Canada has apparently had a big drop in smoking, but Canadians buy theirs from the USA.
In fact the 3 countries named as having under 20% smokers, Australia, parts of America and Canade, I think all have lively ecig markets.

[MarkS]

Feb 25, 2013 18:02:18 GMT AnnaLaw said:

I've been glued to the 'public' EU presentation today and e-cigs were mentioned by a number of Committee members.

The main reason for objecting to banning any useful strength was that they can help smokers quit.
Borgia said that 2 mg in 0.5 ml was the same as the nicotine from a cigarette (note to Borgia - we don't 'smoke' one in 5 minutes)
I'm calling him Borgia as the Linda who spoke for the TPD called the one non-pharma, non-ANTZ 'stakeholder' a Goliath because he was the sole tobacco rep. No ecig or snus reps.
Why they are dangerous by Linda Madwatsit.
1.They irratate the throat
2. We don't know what's in them
3. Some contain irresponsibly high quantities of nicotine
4. If you have a bottle in the fridge you could accidentally drink it
5. Users have no control over the amount of nicotine so it will build up in their bodies until the lose consceuosness from a nicotine ID.

Also mentioned, the 2 UK reports expected soon (MHRA and NICE) which will regualte them as medicines. I think what that answer was anyway.
Tomorow's meeting is secret and includes the 1st vote.

I know that ecigs with any nicotine are banned in Canada, or so some say, and Canada has apparently had a big drop in smoking, but Canadians buy theirs from the USA.
In fact the 3 countries named as having under 20% smokers, Australia, parts of America and Canade, I think all have lively ecig markets.

Points 4 & 5 goes to show that MEP's and MP's think we are all idiots and that they know what's best for us and we cannot be responsible for ourselves.

[kibbster]

Feb 25, 2013 18:02:18 GMT AnnaLaw said:

I've been glued to the 'public' EU presentation today and e-cigs were mentioned by a number of Committee members.

The main reason for objecting to banning any useful strength was that they can help smokers quit.
Borgia said that 2 mg in 0.5 ml was the same as the nicotine from a cigarette (note to Borgia - we don't 'smoke' one in 5 minutes)
I'm calling him Borgia as the Linda who spoke for the TPD called the one non-pharma, non-ANTZ 'stakeholder' a Goliath because he was the sole tobacco rep. No ecig or snus reps.
Why they are dangerous by Linda Madwatsit.
1.They irratate the throat
2. We don't know what's in them
3. Some contain irresponsibly high quantities of nicotine
4. If you have a bottle in the fridge you could accidentally drink it
5. Users have no control over the amount of nicotine so it will build up in their bodies until the lose consceuosness from a nicotine ID.

Also mentioned, the 2 UK reports expected soon (MHRA and NICE) which will regualte them as medicines. I think what that answer was anyway.
Tomorow's meeting is secret and includes the 1st vote.

I know that ecigs with any nicotine are banned in Canada, or so some say, and Canada has apparently had a big drop in smoking, but Canadians buy theirs from the USA.
In fact the 3 countries named as having under 20% smokers, Australia, parts of America and Canade, I think all have lively ecig markets.

On all of those points, what's the chance of getting someone with more than two brain cells to smash their "arguments" to pieces?

I mean really, how can we even fight this level of stupidity and desperation without resorting to tattooing a large phallus on their foreheads?
Well that's what I'd do anyway, but that's probably why they didn't invite me lol 

[MarkS]

But that is just it Kibbster they think we are all as thick as they are, but that does lead me to ask why wasn't there anyone other than a Tobacco rep there to dispute those points?

[kibbster]

Oh another quick note on number 2.
How many times have we heard that trotted out as an argument?

You telling me with all the money they are paid none of these scientists is clever enough to read a label, write to Hangsen for their lab reports or possible buy a bottle for £3 or less and stick it in a centrifuge!?


I wish could just make shit up off the top of my head and get paid loads of it too

[Deleted]

Depends who was invited ... First step in politics is make a decision, then have an 'open' debate where there is no opposition

[Banky]

Iam correcting my last post I deleted that I had written Canada banned nicotine for DIY, in 2011,
Since that post I have looked on the internet and found a Canadian supplier that sells 48mg nicotine,
sorry if I have confused the issue.

[kibbster]

Feb 25, 2013 18:48:18 GMT MarkS said:

But that is just it Kibbster they think we are all as thick as they are, but that does lead me to ask why wasn't there anyone other than a Tobacco rep there to dispute those points?

Probably because they know that if they got someone in who supports e-cigs and doesn't spend their time rubbing their arse across the conference room carpet like the "experts" in this meeting, they might lose the argument.
Then people will use nicotine for pleasure, obtain so much pleasure the birth rate will drop because they'll be too busy vaping then the human race will die out.

[MarkS]

Feb 25, 2013 18:52:40 GMT @ashmal said:

Depends who was invited ... First step in politics is make a decision, then have an 'open' debate where there is no opposition

I get what you mean. A reasoned debate just confuses the issue.

[kibbster]

Feb 25, 2013 18:52:40 GMT @ashmal said:

Depends who was invited ... First step in politics is make a decision, then have an 'open' debate where there is no opposition

Isn't that the truth.

[vereybowring]

I only caught bits of it but nearly cheered when the cigarette representative stated not all interested parties were being represented at the hearing. Otherwise it was horrifying how out of touch these people are with society and don't care about any opinion but their own and resort to puerile baiting of each other.

Anyone else feel that bureaucrats and antz need to be bombed back to the stone age since they don't seem to want to progress into this century with the rest of us ?

EDIT: Face it the tobacco guy was just there for the others to harangue and make light of.

[Deleted]

They've already made their minds up ... I suspect no level of reasoned debate will change their intent imho. Logic and science doesn't provide financial backing from large pharma companies unfortunately. Only the tobacco giants could turn this around and they aren't trusted ... if they won what would come out the other side would not be as we know it today.

I think legal challenges from the ecig industry whoever they are or conglomerate of suppliers stumping up the dosh for medical testing are the only way to go

[kibbster]

Feb 25, 2013 19:04:01 GMT @ashmal said:

They've already made their minds up ... I suspect no level of reasoned debate will change their intent imho. Logic and science doesn't provide financial backing from large pharma companies unfortunately. Only the tobacco giants could turn this around and they aren't trusted ... if they won what would come out the other side would not be as we know it today.

I think legal challenges from the ecig industry whoever they are or conglomerate of suppliers stumping up the dosh for medical testing are the only way to go

I hate to admit it but I've been thinking the same for a while now.

Once I realised the depths of stupidity we were dealing with I realised that they've already decided, for whatever insane reasoning they have that nicotine=evil and e-cigs will be quite happily pounded into dust so they can sell more of their gravy train NRT.

It's obvious that they've devised a two pronged attack.
Continue turning smokers into outcasts hated by everyone but especially themselves keep pushing them to NRT that has a close to 100% fail rate so it's an ongoing business then blindly destroy anything that looks like it might disturb the gravy train.
End result they keep their jobs "trying" to fight the good fight that is on going forever and smokers continue to die to justify just how important their NRT is.

I pray the e-cig legal action works and they all lsoe their jobs for working against public health.



The way this whole thing has turned out so far I'm ashamed to be living in a so called "democracy" , at least in a dictatorship they have the honesty to say your opinion doesn't count and they'll ignore you anyway.

[djs]

Borgia said that 2 mg in 0.5 ml was the same as the nicotine from a cigarette

Arghhh. It's madness.

2 mg in 0.5ml is 4mg in 1ml (no great surprise that "number" has come up).

A carto with 1ml in therefore contains 4mg of nicotine. BEFORE VAPING.
A 20 pack of regular (as opposed to "lights") cigarettes has....wait for it..... 200mg. BEFORE SMOKING.

Ergo - 0.5ml of "useless juice" is NOT the same as a cigarette.

3. Some contain irresponsibly high quantities of nicotine

*Some*? Whats "some"? Some e-liquid, some cartos?

Nothing irresponsible about high strength liquid.....

I'm sure E-Lites and some of the others use strong juice in their full strength E-tips - and so they jolly well need to if one refill is supposed to do 40 fags.

- - -

I guess anyone is at liberty to say anything at the moment. We need science to help us, except time is running out.

[GunJack]

more typical, uninformed, illogical, unreasoned quasi-politico-boll0cks, if I can say that on here