News of EU Commision Stalemate at present..

[jeffc]

Hi Peeps. It looks like no consensus on article 18 proposal is `stalled`.

However this latest release from Le Figaro (Brussels) makes an assumption, relating to next meetings for a conclusion on 16th December.

sante.lefigaro.fr/actualite/2013/12/03/21601-bruxelles-veut-toujours-reguler-cigarette-electronique


I hope that the final outcome does not dampen our Christmas spirit.

We continue to fight for our rights to use e-cigarettes.

.

[Karma]

Google translate doesn't seem to be working for me

I have been following this today and anything that stalls them in their proposals is good, gives us more time

[DiscoDes]

Translation of article:

A study shows that it is more effective than the nicotine patch for smoking cessation.

"The electronic cigarette is not a scam, but it is not a panacea." Gérard Mathern, pulmonologist and General Secretary of the French Society of smoking cessation, with these words summarizes the results of the first "solid" study the effectiveness of this alternative in smoking cessation.

Published Monday in The Lancet, it was also the subject of a presentation at the Annual Congress of the European scientific society of respiratory diseases through its New Zealand authors. They have compared the efficacy of e-cigarette and the nicotine patch after three months of use in smokers aged forty years wishing to quit smoking. Result: 13.1% of vapoteurs arrested, against 9.2% of patients with patch. Three months later, these proportions were 7.3% and 5.8%.

"The results of the study are much less powerful than expected," cautions Bertrand Dautzenberg, president of the French Office for the Prevention of smoking. coordinator of a balanced report on the electronic cigarette for the Department of Health hoped more firm conclusions. This text recommended the ban to minors in public places while pointing out that this was much less dangerous than tobacco. "In the end, it does not work much better than the patches," he laments.

[Raffles]

Dec 3, 2013 21:27:39 GMT DiscoDes said:

 "In the end, it does not work much better than the patches," he laments.

Where have they been studying? Are they in a different universe? If my own personal experience is anything to go by, over 50% of the previous smokers at work have switched, and are happy. ???

[jeffc]

Hi Karma. Here it is.
Brussels still wants to regulate the electronic cigarette
By Pauline Fréour - the 3/12/2013 Curb icon
Advocates "Vapoteuse" mobilize to avoid new restrictions on its marketing in Europe.
Proponents of electronic cigarette rumble and shake. At the heart of their mobilization: the draft European directive on tobacco, Article 18 is dedicated to the e-cigarette. The vote by the European Parliament on October 8 l eur barely gave satisfaction , in particular by maintaining the "Vapoteuse" in the category of consumer goods, not the drug, which would have relegated solely pharmacies. But in the long and complex European legislative process, the next step in progress, which is to develop a compromise between the European Commission, the Council of the European Union and the European Parliament in Strasbourg could reshuffle the cards in the direction Conversely, warned followers of the e-cigarette Tuesday.
In recent days, the players this booming sector expressed their concern, based on a working draft of the legislation they have consulted. This document provides in particular to classify the electronic cigarette as a byproduct of tobacco or drug, removing him the status of consumer product which pro-vapoteuses highly. It also imposes sealed and disposable cartridges, making obsolete the current models that are rechargeable by vials. The maximum amount of nicotine contained in each device would be reduced to 5 mg / ml, considered insufficient to meet the needs of a heavy smoker concentration. Finally, it limits the flavors of e-liquid allowed, currently vary widely, they will taste "tobacco" to "piña colada" through "coffee", to those far less exotic, weaning foods nicotine. All very remote measurements of the text adopted by MEPs.
Discussions between the three institutions have resulted in a step meeting in Brussels on Tuesday morning, which served as a pretext for a call to action on the part of the defenders of the current e-cigarette, including the social network Twitter . Many pro-vapoteuses called to sign a petition that had over 18,000 supporters in the late afternoon.
Some doctors in smoking cessation were also mobilized, recalling the strengths of existing products, which, in their eyes, have proven themselves as smoking cessation tools. "Behind this position of the Council of Ministers, there is a pitch safety that does not hold up so says Dr. Antoine Flahault, public health specialist at the University Paris-Descartes. In cigarettes, which is carcinogenic, the tar and carbon gases released from burning tobacco. In the electronic cigarette, there are only nicotine, which is addictogenic but not carcinogenic. "
"This version of the draft legislation is very worrying, because it would lead to leave the market models developed by the tobacco industry, which does not meet the needs of all consumers," he says. Same analysis on the part of Dr. Philippe Presles , author of a method to quit smoking with the electronic cigarette published this month. "The market of electronic cigarette is a billion dollars, as much as that of nicotine replacement therapy, and 300 times less than that of tobacco. This gives an idea of the forces at play, "he says.
The discussions, however, are not closed and the Presidency of the European Union, occupied until the end of the year Lithuania has set until December 16 to reach a compromise. But at the deadlock looming, an option increasingly discussed in Brussels would be to remove the article 18 of the text to be submitted to final parliamentary vote to save some steps against traditional tobacco by consensus.

[jeffc]

More news relating to Lithuanian Presidents possible reasons for banning e-cigs;

www.15min.lt/en/article/business/lithuania-hopes-to-get-payments-for-seized-smuggled-philip-morris-cigarettes-527-301862

Fecking corrupt politicians.

[kibbster]

Dec 3, 2013 21:27:39 GMT DiscoDes said:

Translation of article:

A study shows that it is more effective than the nicotine patch for smoking cessation.

"The electronic cigarette is not a scam, but it is not a panacea." Gérard Mathern, pulmonologist and General Secretary of the French Society of smoking cessation, with these words summarizes the results of the first "solid" study the effectiveness of this alternative in smoking cessation.

Published Monday in The Lancet, it was also the subject of a presentation at the Annual Congress of the European scientific society of respiratory diseases through its New Zealand authors. They have compared the efficacy of e-cigarette and the nicotine patch after three months of use in smokers aged forty years wishing to quit smoking. Result: 13.1% of vapoteurs arrested, against 9.2% of patients with patch. Three months later, these proportions were 7.3% and 5.8%.

"The results of the study are much less powerful than expected," cautions Bertrand Dautzenberg, president of the French Office for the Prevention of smoking. coordinator of a balanced report on the electronic cigarette for the Department of Health hoped more firm conclusions. This text recommended the ban to minors in public places while pointing out that this was much less dangerous than tobacco. "In the end, it does not work much better than the patches," he laments.

If this is the study I'm thinking of it's amazing how you can spin statistics to read anything you want.
More vapers gave up than with NRT, not as many as expected therefore disappointment and caution is advised.
WTF!?
With the amount of hard selling, promotion and fanfare NRT gets, if E-cigs are more successful they should be the dog's danglies.

Or is the truth that they know NRT success rate is dreadful so they were expecting so much more from gen1 e-cigs with limited amounts of nic in limited cartridges... much like NRT... and they wonder why the e-cigs aren't as successful as they expected.

Put Egos with iclear16s and whatever strength and flavour liquid the user wants and I bet E-cigs would wipe the floor with NRT.

[kibbster]

Dec 3, 2013 21:59:39 GMT jeffc said:

Fecking corrupt politicians.

That's a given.

[giles]

Dec 3, 2013 21:38:10 GMT Raffles said:

Dec 3, 2013 21:27:39 GMT DiscoDes said:

 "In the end, it does not work much better than the patches," he laments.

Where have they been studying? Are they in a different universe? If my own personal experience is anything to go by, over 50% of the previous smokers at work have switched, and are happy. ???

This isn't a new study, it is the one reported in Lancet in September. The e-cig users don't seem to have had any choice of flavour which might explain the results. The study actually started in 2011, so I guess the choice might have been limited anyway. The e-cigs - cig-alikes of course -  were supplied by Elusion, who I haven't heard of, but look OK and the report says they were market leaders in Australasia. 

[4madcats]

Dec 3, 2013 23:42:16 GMT kibbster said:

Dec 3, 2013 21:27:39 GMT DiscoDes said:

Translation of article:

A study shows that it is more effective than the nicotine patch for smoking cessation.

"The electronic cigarette is not a scam, but it is not a panacea." Gérard Mathern, pulmonologist and General Secretary of the French Society of smoking cessation, with these words summarizes the results of the first "solid" study the effectiveness of this alternative in smoking cessation.

Published Monday in The Lancet, it was also the subject of a presentation at the Annual Congress of the European scientific society of respiratory diseases through its New Zealand authors. They have compared the efficacy of e-cigarette and the nicotine patch after three months of use in smokers aged forty years wishing to quit smoking. Result: 13.1% of vapoteurs arrested, against 9.2% of patients with patch. Three months later, these proportions were 7.3% and 5.8%.

"The results of the study are much less powerful than expected," cautions Bertrand Dautzenberg, president of the French Office for the Prevention of smoking. coordinator of a balanced report on the electronic cigarette for the Department of Health hoped more firm conclusions. This text recommended the ban to minors in public places while pointing out that this was much less dangerous than tobacco. "In the end, it does not work much better than the patches," he laments.

If this is the study I'm thinking of it's amazing how you can spin statistics to read anything you want.
More vapers gave up than with NRT, not as many as expected therefore disappointment and caution is advised.
WTF!?
With the amount of hard selling, promotion and fanfare NRT gets, if E-cigs are more successful they should be the dog's danglies.

Or is the truth that they know NRT success rate is dreadful so they were expecting so much more from gen1 e-cigs with limited amounts of nic in limited cartridges... much like NRT... and they wonder why the e-cigs aren't as successful as they expected.

Put Egos with iclear16s and whatever strength and flavour liquid the user wants and I bet E-cigs would wipe the floor with NRT.

Whats the betting they used cigalkes.


Edit - oops didn't see giles post but on the basis of what was used it's a bloody brilliant result.

[kibbster]

Dec 4, 2013 0:01:13 GMT 4madcats said:

Dec 3, 2013 23:42:16 GMT kibbster said:

If this is the study I'm thinking of it's amazing how you can spin statistics to read anything you want.
More vapers gave up than with NRT, not as many as expected therefore disappointment and caution is advised.
WTF!?
With the amount of hard selling, promotion and fanfare NRT gets, if E-cigs are more successful they should be the dog's danglies.

Or is the truth that they know NRT success rate is dreadful so they were expecting so much more from gen1 e-cigs with limited amounts of nic in limited cartridges... much like NRT... and they wonder why the e-cigs aren't as successful as they expected.

Put Egos with iclear16s and whatever strength and flavour liquid the user wants and I bet E-cigs would wipe the floor with NRT.

Whats the betting they used cigalkes.

Apparently they did.
Gen 1 devices with a set nic level and limited supplies a day (I seem to recall 1 carto a day.)
And they wonder why this study didn't show E-cigs as a wonder device.

It's like showing how great the car is for the school run and giving everyone one of those blue disabled cars with one seat.
Only the most dedicated would stick with it

[monty]

There is a lot of money riding on this and they will try any dirty trick... eg trying to get it through on the last sitting before christmas when they hope enough anti regulation EMPs have already gone home.

[kibbster]

If it doesn't go through by Christmas then it doesn't go through as far as I know.
IIIRC next year it can't be resubmitted in the same form and would have to start from scratch again.

Probably explains their panic to bang the worst possible regulations through that they can, if it goes through as is they are happy and if they have to come back next year with a new proposal they can dial it down 100000% and still get tight regulations through.

That is, if I heard correctly that this year is the cut off before Christmas.

[GunJack]

kibbster think it's because the Lithuanian presidency ends for 2014, new bods in post...

[kibbster]

If we make it to Christmas then we bought a lot of time.
Unless they fast track it again with new wording.

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