It's really starting to hurt them...

[Deleted]

In my personal opinion, E-Liquid will be what ends up taxed to high heaven, along with cigalikes.
I think they'll struggle to tax mods, as essentially they're torch handles. Atomisers, I'm not too sure about, surely a piece of metal with a heating coil can't be taxed?
I could be completely and utterly wrong though, as they can pretty much do what they want and we just have to live with it!

It's just one of those things, we'll all adapt. Enjoy the freedom while it's here, sign the EFVI and hope for a sensible outcome that's in the interest of public health.

[Deleted]

Apr 16, 2014 8:16:16 GMT CaptainChaos said:

Ok, so @yinyang - me being new to all this vaping thang, how & what will they 'tax'?

Equipment? Flavours?

Well, most certainly anything containing nicotine  ...  pre-made eliquid and nicotine base. Anything else vaping related that has no other obvious use, who can tell?

[GunJack]

Tax could end up like Italy - 80% on e-liquid (and agreed, probably cig-a-likes). Still cheaper and helthier than smoking though

[CaptainChaos]

And we'll sit here recommending the small genuine vendors, still buying tasty liquid for 0% increase, hopefully

[DiscoDes]

Apr 16, 2014 8:16:16 GMT CaptainChaos said:

Ok, so @yinyang - me being new to all this vaping thang, how & what will they 'tax'?

Equipment? Flavours?

No, Nicotine base liquid.

Firstly they will ban the import of Nicotine liquid (base) and set up "approved" supply chains that will have to pay tax/duty at a level that will make it similar to tobacco.

That will mean e-liquid producers will only be able to buy nicotine base at the inflated price through the Government approved channels.

They will also probably make the liquid producers buy licenses in order to be an "approved supplier" that will cost a lot of money to get a license and probably involve periodic checks on premises where mixing is done to make sure that everything is compliant, the mixers will have to pay for this as well.
This will wipe out lots of small Artisan mixers/suppliers of E-liquid.

It is impossible for them to tax what are in essence food flavourings and PG or VG with no nicotine in it.

Also it is nigh on impossible for them to be able to ban devices.

So it will be the nicotine base that will be hit.

[Mikey@Vaporized]

I really believe in just doing whatever the f*** you please, within reason of course. Where no harm is done, it's fine by me. My advice would be for mixers to stock up on litres and litres of nic base before 2016. At the end of the day, the government never knew about me selling my duty free cigs in their hundreds to friends with no tax paid. I fail to see how they can fully get a hold of the ECIG market. There's always a black market for everything, granted a lot of people that participate in it may not produce to the same standard, but for many small/artisan makers that might be the only choice to keep it going - sell local and stay quiet about it. I for one would still give my commerce to someone doing so provided the products were of high quality and consistency.
Really if it's dealt with in the right way, taxes could be avoided for years. Cigarette tax is quite fairly justified as it has risen in line with the amount of spending required from illness caused by analog use. Unless some drastic GENUIN health scare about ecigs comes out, they have no real reason for taxing. Even for non users it certainly wouldnt be good, public opinion would change drastically if we were told our money was being taken without justification. I would hope so anyway...

[Deleted]

Apr 16, 2014 11:08:26 GMT Mikey@Vaporized said:

I really believe in just doing whatever the f*** you please, within reason of course. Where no harm is done, it's fine by me. My advice would be for mixers to stock up on litres and litres of nic base before 2016. At the end of the day, the government never knew about me selling my duty free cigs in their hundreds to friends with no tax paid. I fail to see how they can fully get a hold of the ECIG market. There's always a black market for everything, granted a lot of people that participate in it may not produce to the same standard, but for many small/artisan makers that might be the only choice to keep it going - sell local and stay quiet about it. I for one would still give my commerce to someone doing so provided the products were of high quality and consistency.
Really if it's dealt with in the right way, taxes could be avoided for years. Cigarette tax is quite fairly justified as it has risen in line with the amount of spending required from illness caused by analog use. Unless some drastic GENUIN health scare about ecigs comes out, they have no real reason for taxing. Even for non users it certainly wouldnt be good, public opinion would change drastically if we were told our money was being taken without justification. I would hope so anyway...

  and when did any government ever give a flying £88k about public opinion when money is concerned?

[lobeydosser]

<<<There's always a black market for everything, granted a lot of people that participate in it may not produce to the same standard, but for many small/artisan makers that might be the only choice to keep it going - sell local and stay quiet about it. I for one would still give my commerce to someone doing so provided the products were of high quality and consistency. >>>

And therein lies the crux. How does anyone know what is high quality and consistence?
Just as soon as e-juices become sought after and higher priced, the rogues will move in to make a fast buck and the whole issue of e-juices will take on the black-market guise that is undermining the tobacco industry.
It is easier to make inferior e-juice than just about any other product I know.
I have even done so by mistake while making up my own.

[Mikey@Vaporized]

Fair play @yinyang, you make a very good point. As for the crux, that's where I think regulation is appropriate in a sense. It should ensure a quality of goods and services definitely. I just mean specifically the smaller liquid makers who make very well rated e-liquids. Bigger companies will handle the taxes, but what about those that are very passionate about it and simple can't afford to keep up? It's great that we wouldn't have to put up with horrible liquids yes, but would be ashame if a lot of the liquids you used suddenly disappeared. lobeydosser, I suppose I would in the end rather pay for quality and consistency, just opposed heavily to lining Westminster's band of thieves pockets.