Blackjack concentrate separating?

[Perpetua]

I've never been a customer of theirs . . . nor likely to be if this is an example of their service!

Even if they stocked the best concentrates on the planet - I'd take my money elsewhere.

[prr]

If they are monitoring this thread and still not replying to you guys with a problem then they have to be morons with a business death wish!

[minime]

At the moment I'm trying to track down a old friend that I haven't seen for years, he's a chemist for a very big food flavouring manufacturing compony ( griffiths laboratory's ) and if I can find him I'm going to ask him to see if he can do any tests on this concentrate because we aren't getting any closer to a answer from vv.

[igual]

I'm really surprised and very disappointed in vampire vapes handling of this issue.
In past I had a problem with a leaked bottle due to RM crushing the package, they replied promptly and replacement was received the next day.

I have a bottle of blackjack here and no separation issues.
Have done the drop test in water and all is good.
Batch no 554261 exp 05/07/16

[Deleted]

I was planning on buying some of their concentrates tomorrow, but after reading how they have treated fellow members on here.. No Chance!

[minime]

Iv had a email back from vv that basically said they have got there 15 staff to do DIY mixes ( at home I think ) withe this concentrate and they only had one issue with it separating,so I think what they are trying to say is we are mixing it wrong ?

They also said they are putting some binding agent in a test batch and it's working ok and is making the flavour better and this will be the concentrate that they will be selling. I cannot help but think why bother putting this binding agent in if the original is ok strange I think.

[igual]

If its any help this is how I mixed mine up.
Vamp Vapes Blackjack
To make 28.0 mls @ 8.0 MG Nicotine(Mls)
Base Nicotine - 3.1
PG : - 8.1
VG : - 10.9
Vamp Vapes Blackjack - 5.6
Em - 0.3
Total Flavouring - 5.9
Expected PG:VG Ratio - 50:50
Actual PG:VG Ratio - 50:50

Ingredients added in order of rec.
My em is homemade and is very concentrated compared to the readymade.
So I'd use 0.9 readymade.

[dagl]

Apr 11, 2015 8:36:50 GMT minime said:

Iv had a email back from vv that basically said they have got there 15 staff to do DIY mixes ( at home I think ) withe this concentrate and they only had one issue with it separating,so I think what they are trying to say is we are mixing it wrong ?

They also said they are putting some binding agent in a test batch and it's working ok and is making the flavour better and this will be the concentrate that they will be selling. I cannot help but think why bother putting this binding agent in if the original is ok strange I think.

Snap minime -

Apologies for the length of time it has taken to get back to you on the problems you have experienced mixing the Black Jack concentrate.



We have conducted extensive tests on the concentrate, our Biochemist & Production Director each mixed a batch as if they were making it at home, we ran a batch of our 10ml premix using the concentrate, and we also asked each of our 15 staff members to mix a 30ml bottle to their own ratio preference.



The concentrate we sell to customers is also the same product used in our pre-mix e-liquid, however it is mixed in a slightly different way due to our mixing process. The batch we ran through our hoppers & bottling machine in the clean room was done using the concentrate, this run was a success & did not float or separate, was quality tested as per our procedures and is now ready for sale in our stores. Both of our Senior staff also mixed the concentrate without separation.



The mixes from our other 15 staff members had 1 issue with separation with the concentrate floating on the top. This also reflects in the sales ratio of Black Jack concentrate to the handful of complaints we have received, as Black Jack is one of our bestsellers, where only a small percentage of our customers have experienced issues with separation.



As you will probably appreciate that whilst our flavour concentrates are subject to stringent quality control, they don’t have a product warranty due to the nature of the goods, there are many elements to DIY or home mixing which are out of our control. However as a reputable business with 15 years’ experience in the flavour industry, we felt it necessary to fully address the few complaints we have received, and we have analysed every element possible to eliminate any potential cause and find a solution. The raw ingredients have been lab tested and no variances or causes were found across a series of batch numbers, we tried a small amount of emulsifier additive which can be used to aid binding in certain flavours and this did resolve the mix with the floating concentrate.



As a result of your feedback, we have reworked the flavour several times and the final result has also made improvements to the flavour, we created a sample concentrate batch & used this to retest under the same conditions, with no separation issues at all. This new mix is being put into main production next week.



As soon as this batch has gone through our quality testing, we will replace your original order and also pop some extras in for you.



Thank you for your patience & understanding through this process.

[vapernick]

I think that's pretty honest of them to go into detail, no wonder its took them a while with the lab tests etc I get what they're saying, like I said before never had a problem mixing it myself, good to see they took the time to take your complaints onboard & offer you replacements

[Perpetua]

I think that's a pretty comprehensive answer dagl, minime . . . it is a great pity that they didn't keep all of you with issues in the picture with what they were doing however.

Reading between the lines, there are obviously problems, sufficient enough for them to re-work the concentrate.

I'm also pleased to read that they will be replacing everyone's original order, with a little ' compensation '.

Personally, I'd be happy with that offer.

[minime]

I'm glad they are sorting it out,but I'm still at a loss has to why my mix is separating. I have been mixing now for well over 3 years so it's not like I don't know what I'm doing.

[reddragon]

It would appear that there is a problem albeit a 1 in 15 chance. It doesn't look like they know why, but enough of an issue for them to change their concentrate for the future. Look forward to getting the new batch and see what extras we get in compensation. I am missing my black jack as I haven't bought any more in the meantime, I didn't want to throw any more away

[minime]

Iv had 4 x 30ml bottles of this concentrate over a period and everyone separated, I feel a bit annoyed that in so meany words ( albeit politely ) they are telling us we don't know how to mix it.

I'm very happy we are going to get some of the new batch and a free juice. Hold on they never asked for my address or anything so we will have to see if they get back in touch.

[reddragon]

Whilst they may be suggesting we don't know how to mix minime they are also admitting there is a problem or else why would they look to change their concentrate?

I would presume they can match my email address that I contacted them with to my order but will be interesting how long we have to wait for the replacement concentrate.

[minime]

I emailed them my address has I picked my concentrates up from there shop when passing ( truck driver ) they have just emailed me back asking how meany bottles iv had.

I'm all happy now lol.