Health issue - Nicotine vs Liver, advice?

[Globalbloke (Tim)]

Post removed - thanks for the contributions below, all very helpful.

[Karma]

Tim, I pressume you were still smoking in January? Did the doc say that could be contributing to your problems?

Were you offered any NRT to stop smoking, or did they feel that due to your problems NRT wouldn't be good?

You're not by any chance taking paracetamol based pain killers or cold remedies?

[steve386]

I'm sure I read somewhere about the effect PG can have on the liver. Try a google search for propylene glycol liver. Not sure if VG may be better or not, especially if you have an existing liver issue.

[Perpetua]

Honestly, I wouldn't like to say Tim . . . you're doing exactly the right thing in going to see your Doctor.

Different people report a whole host of different symptoms in the early months of giving up smoking or switching to vaping . . . but it's always best to be safe than sorry though I think.

[Globalbloke (Tim)]

Mar 22, 2012 22:41:56 GMT Karma said:

Tim, I presume you were still smoking in January? Did the doc say that could be contributing to your problems?

Were you offered any NRT to stop smoking, or did they feel that due to your problems NRT wouldn't be good?

You're not by any chance taking paracetamol based pain killers or cold remedies?

We didn't discuss the ciggies, they were adamant this was down to booze, I am the correct BMI for my height and weight so could not attribute bad diet to Liver issues.

And no, the only things I have taken recently were some nurofen but have only had about 4 in the past 2 weeks so nothing untoward there either.

[Chrissie]

Same as Steve, I'm wondering if it's the PG?

[Globalbloke (Tim)]

Mar 22, 2012 22:43:52 GMT steve386 said:

I'm sure I read somewhere about the effect PG can have on the liver. Try a google search for propylene glycol liver. Not sure if VG may be better or not, especially if you have an existing liver issue.

Yes I did read something earlier and amongst the propoganda rubbish that is starting to appear the FDA says:

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified propylene glycol as “generally recognized as "safe",” which means that it is acceptable for use in flavourings, drugs, and cosmetics, and as a direct food additive

Now if I know the FDA and their reluctance to classify anything other than dangerous and potentially harmful (diet coke has had a receipe change recently because of a chemical in there that "may" be linked to cancer) the above statement is praise indeed.

[Globalbloke (Tim)]

Mar 22, 2012 22:48:27 GMT Chrissie said:

Same as Steve, I'm wondering if it's the PG?

See I was thinking it was PG or the nicotine and was worrying that I was somehow actually entering more nictoine into my system that I was used to but I was smoking 30 a day and my vaping is actually moderate, I'm not chain vaping.

Also it's odd how today it feels better and I have dropped to 6mg, but of course this could very well be coincidence, as maybe any issues I'm having and vaping. I have actually spent the day identifying any changes I have made recently, I have even considered the possibility that the new fizzy water I bought may be at fault (it had huge trace elements in it) and went and bought some of my ususal water "just in case".

It's a blooming mystery....

[Karma]

I really don't know, so its good that you're seeing the Doc. My worry is that your Doc will not have a great understanding of vaping and as this is new to you then it's easy to put 2+2 together

It maybe that you will have to stop for a bit and try patches or something to see if you improve.

My friend had her gal bladder removed last year. Gal bladder problems can make liver function test unreliable! a dodgy galblader will push up measurable liver enzymes and the liver tests will look as though you're drinking too much!

I don't know enough about vaping and pg to really be able to comment. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that you need to look at vaping but don't let it stand in the way of looking at other posibilities!

[Chrissie]

Out of interest Tim, is your 6mg juice also a different % PG to VG?

[Anne (fuzzy)]

When people give up a long term addiction the body objects in any number of ways, it could be something and nothing, but best to be safe as they say.

Well done on giving up the booze, you'll probably find it's the best thing you've ever done, not just for yourself, but everyone else it affected too.

[Globalbloke (Tim)]

Mar 22, 2012 23:04:18 GMT Chrissie said:

Out of interest Tim, is your 6mg juice also a different % PG to VG?

60/40 but I am using the same flavour, same supplier, just a different strength of nicotine.

[Globalbloke (Tim)]

Mar 22, 2012 23:06:19 GMT Anne (fuzzy) said:

When people give up a long term addiction the body objects in any number of ways, it could be something and nothing, but best to be safe as they say.

Well done on giving up the booze, you'll probably find it's the best thing you've ever done, not just for yourself, but everyone else it affected too.

The booze bit, well this is why I didn't think it was an issue, I was never a drinker during the day, had a hard a fast rule about not drinking during the day or in front of children etc so it really was only between 7pm and 10pm, this is what made it acceptable. In my eyes an alcholic was someone who rollled out of bed and went to the pub at 11am and drank all day.

I was never drunk, never had hangovers, never let it affect life in any way shape or form, the only thing it was appearing to do was destroy my health. I have enough people around me to give me a massive slap if I step out of line so if they had identified it as a problem I would have known about it very quickly.

A lot of people think that drinking every night is acceptable, it is until it becomes something to rely on as an emotional crutch, something I quite clearly did.

[foxy9212]

A number of natural health companies lump PG in with ethylene glycol as 'dangerous chemicals.' However, there is no evidence that PG causes harm unless ingested in large quantities (I've not read exactly how large these quantities are). As most of the articles I've seen are followed by a recommendation to buy this or that 'detoxing' product, I tend to take them with a pinch of salt (oops - salt's dangerous!). Ethylene Glycol, of course, is not used in vaping despite what some who should know better would have the world believe!

I use PG everyday in my toilet and cosmetic products as well as vaping, probably to excess and thus far I seem absolutely fine healthwise.

We do know that none of us should be assaulting our lungs with foreign substances but we do that every day by simply walking down the road.

We can't really give medical advice on this forum so, if worried, please do see the doc.

Fox

[Globalbloke (Tim)]

Mar 22, 2012 23:03:33 GMT Karma said:

I really don't know, so its good that you're seeing the Doc. My worry is that your Doc will not have a great understanding of vaping and as this is new to you then it's easy to put 2+2 together

It maybe that you will have to stop for a bit and try patches or something to see if you improve.

My friend had her gal bladder removed last year. Gal bladder problems can make liver function test unreliable! a dodgy galblader will push up measurable liver enzymes and the liver tests will look as though you're drinking too much!

I don't know enough about vaping and pg to really be able to comment. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that you need to look at vaping but don't let it stand in the way of looking at other posibilities!

All noted and off to do some research, thank you, very helpful indeed.