Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 5, 2014 20:25:32 GMT
Quite a few vendors have the 2nd batch on preorder but the dates are being pushed back due to vaporshark sorting out niggling issues.. I'd still wait til new year for everything to be ironed out... As soon as i see SVB making dna40s I'll start looking. Nigel seems to know what is going on even if the rest of us don't.. Dan who's SVB and why? Nigel doesn't know what's going on, his trusting vapor shark to OC, which they should do. SVB is Soul Vaper Baby mods ran by a chap called Nigel Moxon. He's been making custom dna boxmods for quite a while and selling them via UKV and Facebook. He has lists of 50 at a time and has a very high standard of workmanship. He does know what's going on He has made mods with a very unique finish such as the old rusty and old silver. As I said, when he starts a list for the dna40 mods, i shall duly look at my options with the trust that the boards will then be up to scratch. I won't be buying an off the shelf mod as I'd rather have one made for me to suit my needs. Failing that, I'll commision an sx350 build using either the v250 or mini board (both of which use a slightly different temperature control system to that of Evolv) once some reviews start to surface.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 5, 2014 2:27:02 GMT
Came out nice. This Lemo don't arf chuck out the flavour. Greeeeaaaat.. another atty to try icon_shoppingm
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 5, 2014 0:33:55 GMT
isnt there going to be a mpv3 and this is just update mvp2.0? Good question I gathered that they were working on an upgraded mvp2 to 20w (dna20d?) to begin with. The 30w mvp won't happen til the new year..
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 5, 2014 0:31:11 GMT
Well, the mrs and I vape a lot of black gold, blackcurrant, grape and maple syrup from joose juice which works out at about £7 odds for 60ml plus a small delivery charge. On top of this we also order some delicious flavours from health-e-vape such as purple cloud, cola crush and fruit salad which are also under £8.50 for 30ml. I even swear by dekangs red cola at £1.50 and hangsen menthol sensation at £1.85 for 10ml each from mr e cig. We also have a small scale supplier of various astaire juices (green and strawberry) and jack the ripple who takes £7 for 30 ml. All of the above are divine, so 'd have to say unless the juice is unbeatable then £26 is way over the top. Care to divulge the details of your small scale supplier? 30mls is generally around £10-12 from most decent places. I personally wouldn't spend £26 on 100mls unless it was something special though.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 5, 2014 0:28:03 GMT
Cheers for the advice dan, im going try that build tonight How'd you get on?
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 5, 2014 0:24:01 GMT
Quite a few vendors have the 2nd batch on preorder but the dates are being pushed back due to vaporshark sorting out niggling issues..
I'd still wait til new year for everything to be ironed out...
As soon as i see SVB making dna40s I'll start looking. Nigel seems to know what is going on even if the rest of us don't..
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 4, 2014 16:10:07 GMT
510 change is welcome. Otherwise i prefer the v2. Quite like the domed fire button
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 4, 2014 16:07:13 GMT
Parallel coil with 0.4 would give a decent build for some clouds. You will need to high wattage though.. How low can you go with your boxes? Only got a couple of sharks at the mow but i know they can go fairly low. Keep hovering over the new rdna40 but im put off at the mow as there seems to be a few niggles Ok. Dna30d can go down to 0.5? as far as I'm aware.. not much point foing that low though! Problem is, the chip won't fire below 4v, so you'll need to hit 32watts before it actually regulates. Just dumps battery voltage up to then.. Even 0.6? wouldn't regulate until 26w. Really pays off to build higher resistance and whack it up. Parallel 9 wraps of 0.25a1 kanthal would yield 1.5? (I've used this in a rose and it works quite well..) Dna30d would regulate from 10w upwards.. I'm steering clear of dna40 until the new year for the same reason as you. Too many uncertainties at the moment.. Have you thought about an off the shelf or even custom box with an sx chip? I love my sigelei 100w boxes and I'm waiting on a dual parallel custom sx350 box as we speak.. Get a sigelei for £60 if you can find one.. bloody good bits of kit!
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 4, 2014 15:05:04 GMT
Parallel coil with 0.4 would give a decent build for some clouds. You will need to high wattage though..
How low can you go with your boxes?
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 3, 2014 18:08:21 GMT
I think the reasoning behind swapping them around is that one takes more abuse than the other in series. Swapping keeps them even as they age. Popular misconception, probably created by peeps that have nothing else but the desire to be admired by their peers. In series - Both batteries carry the same current, therefore they both take the same stress. Don't let anyone make it more complicated than it is. Also - parallel batteries. In a well designed and built mod no need to swap them around. In a parallel mod where the draw isn't balanced (poor design, small wires etc etc) you will may have to swap them around occasionally, though when they are sat the higher charged battery will supply a small charge to the lesser to regain that balance, which will happen within minutes. If it's misconception, why is there 0.1v difference between them fresh out of the mod?
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 3, 2014 17:23:49 GMT
Thank you Dan, it was helpful, then it got more complicated, and then even more complicated and the flummoxed step is now full robby I'll just click the link Dan and buy panasonics for the vtr, keep my coils at around 1.7/1.8 ohms and change the batteries when the little light turns orange or red. Cos that's about my limit, especially at this time of the evening. The only complicated bit was me misunderstanding how vw boards mess with amperages.. Those panasonics will do you proud
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 3, 2014 17:21:51 GMT
Dan I don't know the min voltage under load the Sigelei 100w uses, but will take a guess at 2.5 V per battery, 5 V total. For calculating what the battery is doing the resistance is not needed (it may make a small difference where you are getting it to convert the voltage more). Again I don't know the efficiency, so will take a guess at 93% IIRC what the SX350 is. To get 100 W from 93% efficient converter 100 * (100/93) = 107.5 W At full charge 2 * 4.2 V = 8.4 V, I = P/V = 107.5/8.4 = 12.8 A At 50% charge (guess that 3.8 V ish) 7.2 V, I = P/V = 107.5/7.2 = 15.93 A At 10% charge (guess that 2.8 V ish) 5.6 V, I = P/V = 107.5/5.6 = 19.2 A But the voltage from the battery will drop quite a lot under load so I will do it taking the voltage from the 25R graphs from Kidney Puncher. 100% the voltage under load would be more like 3.5 V per battery, I = P/V = 107.5/7 = 15.3 A Min (from the graphs) 3.5 V resting, 2.8 V under load, I = P/V = 107.5/5.6 = 19.2 A I know most people say that you should rotate series batteries around and I don't know why as they will both have exactly the same current flowing through them. It maybe that one is connected to the mod by its anode and the other by it cathode and these age at different rates so rotating them evens this up. But it will do no harm either so you might as well. Just as well i bought decent batteries then lol Just fyi, they come off at 10% reading 3.3v & 3.4v. Not sure if thats relevant? Efficiency of the board is 95%. I think the reasoning behind swapping them around is that one takes more abuse than the other in series. Swapping keeps them even as they age. To be quite honest i just do it for safety's sake now.. I'm glad you know what you're talking about fella.. left my brain in bed
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 3, 2014 13:47:39 GMT
I used ohms law to get the amperages. So am i right in thinking that although this is an ok method for mechanical devices, but not vv/vw devices as we need their step down/up taken into consideration? "I'm the weakest link.. goodbye" You are not the weakest link, far from it in fact, you make loads of great & useful posts!Lots of people struggle with these two issues: ohms don't affect power in VW mods and VV/VW converters change both voltage and current to get the required power. Yes, your are correct that is the right way to think of unregulated devices. Very kind of you to say, thankyou Maybe you can help me then. Rose v2 - Sigelei 100w. Using 2 × inr25 in series. I'm running a 1.9? coil @ 19.2w / 6.04v What am i actually drawing from the batteries at: 100% charge 50% charge 10% charge Will one battery be taking more of a hit than the other? I swap them around after every change as a matter of course but would love to know how much stress is placed on each one..
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 3, 2014 12:51:03 GMT
What is it you're flummoxed about? See if this helps.. The VTR can fire anything from 0.7? upwards and has a 5amp limit. The maximum it's chipset can fire is 6 volts @ 15 watts. So as an example of a low build, 0.7? @ 15w would output 3.24v and would need to draw 4.63amps from the battery. No where near the voltage limit but quite close to the amperage limit. This in turn would mean the batteries are being worked reasonably hard and thus battery life per charge wouldn't be great. If you build a higher build, the amperage needed from the battery is lower and thus you will get more time out of a charged cell. The perfect build to get the full potential from the VTR's chip would be a single coil reading 2.4?. This allows you to use the full 6v @ 15w. So. 2.4? @ 15w would output 6v and would need to draw 2.5amps from the battery. See how the amps have dropped with the higher resistance? The battery life will improve with a higher ? build as they don't need to output as much amperage at once. So, all in all, as long as you batteries with a constant amp rating of 5amps and above, you'll be fine! I've used several cells in mine. I've used the Torchy 2600mah flattops. Perfect for 2.5amps and will give you good capacity throughout. These are rewrapped Samsung ICR cells. Good for regulated mods needing low amps. These cells however ARE NOT suitable for low resistance builds. The main cell I tend to use though is the Panasonic NCR18650PF. This cell is good for 10amp constant and so gives masses of headroom for the VTR's maximum needs. As far as life per charge. You'll get a usable 2500mah @5amp so similar to the Torchy cell @2amp Out of the two cells, i would recommend the Panasonics for your usage. Does that help clear things up? I don't disagree with your battery recommendation, but like a lot of people are you are under a misconception about battery usage in a VV/VW set up. Simply put it's watts in watts out, less 5-10% efficiency loss from the electronics and the current (as long as you are well within safety limits) doesn't make any difference. A lot of people also mistakenly think that you get higher power from vv/vw mod using low resistance. Draing your battery at close to its current limit will mean it needs more time to recover between puffs and probably stresses the battery more. In both you're 15 w examples the drain on the battery would be the same even though the output is different: EG1: "0.7? @ 15w would output 3.24v and would need to draw 4.63amps from the battery" that would output 3.63 A @ 3.24 V, but ignoring the inefficiency from a 4 V battery that would only require 4.13 A. EG2: "2.4? @ 15w would output 6v and would need to draw 2.5amps from the battery" that would output 2.5 A @ 6 V, but ignoring the inefficiency from a 4 V battery that would still require 4.13 A , I = sqrt(P/V) . If the battery is low, say 3.5 V than 15 W would require current from the battery 4.28 A and add 10% for inefficiency we get close to 5 A, so completely agree a 10 A battery will perform well in this mod. I am not trying to have a pop at you and as I said a lot of people have this wrong so I thought it was important to correct it. I used ohms law to get the amperages. So am i right in thinking that although this is an ok method for mechanical devices, but not vv/vw devices as we need their step down/up taken into consideration? "I'm the weakest link.. goodbye"
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 3, 2014 9:59:57 GMT
Thank you Dan, it does make some sense, still a bit flummoxed though What is it you're flummoxed about? See if this helps.. The VTR can fire anything from 0.7? upwards and has a 5amp limit. The maximum it's chipset can fire is 6 volts @ 15 watts. So as an example of a low build, 0.7? @ 15w would output 3.24v and would need to draw 4.63amps from the battery. No where near the voltage limit but quite close to the amperage limit. This in turn would mean the batteries are being worked reasonably hard and thus battery life per charge wouldn't be great. If you build a higher build, the amperage needed from the battery is lower and thus you will get more time out of a charged cell. The perfect build to get the full potential from the VTR's chip would be a single coil reading 2.4?. This allows you to use the full 6v @ 15w. So. 2.4? @ 15w would output 6v and would need to draw 2.5amps from the battery. See how the amps have dropped with the higher resistance? The battery life will improve with a higher ? build as they don't need to output as much amperage at once. So, all in all, as long as you batteries with a constant amp rating of 5amps and above, you'll be fine! I've used several cells in mine. I've used the Torchy 2600mah flattops. Perfect for 2.5amps and will give you good capacity throughout. These are rewrapped Samsung ICR cells. Good for regulated mods needing low amps. These cells however ARE NOT suitable for low resistance builds. The main cell I tend to use though is the Panasonic NCR18650PF. This cell is good for 10amp constant and so gives masses of headroom for the VTR's maximum needs. As far as life per charge. You'll get a usable 2500mah @5amp so similar to the Torchy cell @2amp Out of the two cells, i would recommend the Panasonics for your usage. Does that help clear things up?
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