Can we work together as a community?

[CAM-VIP]

Ay Up Everyone,

Anyone who knows me, either via the forums or in real life, know that I am passionate about ecigs and building a community that supports its members. I also believe that 'spreading the word' about ecigs into the wider community to smokers and other interested parties is vital.

In 2010/11, forum members, vendors and other ecig activists all worked together and a number of 'initiatives' were established to achieve those aims. These included amongst others;

CAM-VIP
UK Vapefest
ECCA
ECITA
VTTV
RY4Radio

Apart from ECITA which is a business, the others depend upon support from the community to grow and become established as the worthwhile methods of getting ecigs accepted by the general public and the 'powers that be'. This support is NOT forthcoming.

Is there a reason force this? Why are those initiatives failing to bring the ecig community together?

I'd be more than interested to hear people's thoughts on this.

Russell

[han78]

Hi Russell, I am fairly new to vaping, just passed the 6 week mark on Friday, and I sometimes get the feeling (and I am willing to be totally wrong about this!) that because of the possibility of the Government banning or regulating e-cigs and juices, it almost feels more sensible to not make a huge fuss and draw attention to vaping in a public way, sure I tell all my family, friends and any other poor sod who will listen about it, but I guess the thought of drawing more attention to it in a public way makes me feel like we will get noticed and it will get banned or and perhaps even worse regulated more quickly, those lovely tobacco companies will be making our e-juices then.....no thank you!)........I have no idea if this worries others too...it's perhaps just my thoughts!

[gjdart]

Think I'm with you on this han78...naive as it may be!!

[andylec]

Thats a good point you raised han78,i hadn't really looked at it that way before

[djs]

Is it worth bringing peoples attention to e-cigs when the market is already filled with wealthy companies selling useless and expensive rubbish to the masses?

While the independents are making a living and those "in the know" are able to buy good kit at affordable prices, is it worth rocking the boat?

Before we know it (if there was widespread acceptance and health scrutiny) the big boys would be stealing our footballs and stamping all over our toys in the typically flawed methods of e-capitalism.

If ******* (insert big name internet shop) started selling egos, liquids, clearomisers and boge cartos alongside jeans, downloadable music and dvds, I suspect the small guys serving our needs would not last long. I don't want that.

The internet is a wonderful place until big business gets it's grubby hands all over niche markets.

I agree with you about building the community and supporting members of the community....I just fear a craze would do more damage than everybody going quietly about their business.

[nobaccybob]

I think the time for keeping our little secret has gone . Vaping is now main stream , every day I pass a new bricks and mortar shop or see another on line retailer opening . A big American tobacco bought a cigalike company last month . The World Health Organization had a meeting the other day with e cigs on the agenda .And Argos are selling kits now .
www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4531331.htm

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2135984/If-beat-em-join-em-U-S-Tobacco-giant-Lorillard-buys-e-cigarette-company-Blu-Ecig-135m-deal.html

Sorry can't find a link to the WHO meeting .

But if big pharma and big tabacco and the UK's biggest on line retailer are on the case our little hobby is in trouble .
NRT manufactures will be buggered when people find ecigs work better than patches or gum .
Tobacco company's will either start making their own branded cigalikes or push some money at fighting them via lobbyists(as has happened) .
Government would need to recoup revenue losses as vaping becomes more popular .
If only 50% of e cig users ditch the fags that's still a big financial hit for the above interested parties to take .

I,m not in tin foil hat mode it's happening .

www.thecommentator.com/article/1660/the_european_union_and_big_pharma_a_tale_of_corporate_lobbying .

At worst a total ban or a bland tasting regulated and taxed chemist bought e cig .Or maybe such strict testing and compliance on ejuice that most small manufactures couldn't afford to obtain .
Or they could leave us alone and let us carry on not paying tax on our addiction (apart from VAT)and feeling healthier with out nicorette and the such like getting a fortune of the tax payer via NHS NRT clinics for their poorly performing product .

Follow the money thats the way it usually ends .I think were up against it all those vested interests and myopic anti smoking groups who now seem to find e cigs just as evil as tobacco . Unite and fight

Keep up the good work Russell .

[djs]

Great post nobaccybob.

Some top reading in there.

[djs]

Nov 18, 2012 16:52:10 GMT nobaccybob said:

And Argos are selling kits now .
www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4531331.htm

Interesting Argos should choose Vapestick.

Vapestick do 10-pack-refills for £7.99. They say you can get 10-20 cigs-worth per refill. Sensible...

I wonder where E-Lites are in all this, with their £7.99 for two apparently capable of offering a totally implausible 80 (40 each)...

Maybe Morrison's should switch allegiance.

[han78]

omg argos are selling e-cigs perhaps the cat is out of the bag and we really should get out there!

[djs]

Nov 18, 2012 19:17:02 GMT han78 said:

omg argos are selling e-cigs perhaps the cat is out of the bag and we really should get out there!

Is it safe to get out there though with mods and massive tanks?

[nobaccybob]

Funny how all the disposables cost the same as a 20 deck isn't it ??? Mind you it was the expensive refills on my Tesco pharmacy cig that led me to the forums .
A foolish and naive idea that doing some interweb research would save me money and not lead 12 months on to me having a large tupper ware box of batts , mods , atties and juice .

[Gordy]

Hi Rusty could you elaborate on what exactly you are saying or asking

as far as i know Vapefest was a HUGE success and the mini meets are becoming more and more popular... i for one have attended one a month since vapefest and the community we have here is absolutely fantastic to be around

VTTV and RY4 Radio have ever growing numbers and very well supported in this community

ECCA meetings are regularly attended by a number of members here too

maybe some ideas of how we can help would be helpful

[Toonvape]

Nov 18, 2012 16:52:10 GMT nobaccybob said:

But if big pharma and big tabacco and the UK's biggest on line retailer are on the case our little hobby is in trouble .
NRT manufactures will be buggered when people find ecigs work better than patches or gum .
Tobacco company's will either start making their own branded cigalikes or push some money at fighting them via lobbyists(as has happened) .
Government would need to recoup revenue losses as vaping becomes more popular .
If only 50% of e cig users ditch the fags that's still a big financial hit for the above interested parties to take .

I,m not in tin foil hat mode it's happening.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, big pharmas and tobacco companies done like it because its eating into their revenue, and imagine the amount of tax the Government lose for every person who switches to vaping. There has already been a push for GPs not to mention ecigarettes and instead keep recommending patches and tablets.

We will see the tobacco companies moving into the ecigarette scene soon, they are already researching their own vaping products. No doubt there will be some deals done at a high level and we will see the call for any bans miraculously lifted but with some sort of higher rate tax added to vaping products.

It's all about money at the end of the day.

[CAM-VIP]

Cheers everyone and Gordy, I will try to clarify things.

My main concern is ECCA.

I believe that we need to properly establish a Consumer Association that is 'real' in the sense that it has funding and a voice in the wider electronic cigarette using public.

I was part of the 'steering committee' and we laid down a solid constitution.

Unfortunately, there has been no financial backing and ECCA has just become a blog on a website. The AGM was poorly attended when it was officially launched at last year's Vapefest and was cancelled this year.

ECCA is 'inactive' because it has no support from the online vaping community apart from a handful of people who used to attend the regular meetings, and has no way of gaining the financial backing to achieve its aims. Sam Munro and Rolygate dare not even post about ECCA on the forums anymore because they get shot down in flames for not doing anything

This is a very young industry and the people who take on roles such as committee members of ECCA, do it voluntarily BUT for it to be recognised 'on the street' as a body to represent the users of electronic cigarettes, it needs funding.

Unfortunately, there is no benevolent vaping millionaire willing to do that at the moment and no Government or EU grants!, so where should the money come from?

Where does the MONEY come from to support the other initiatives?

In the case of CAM-VIP, it mainly comes from my pocket. VTTV? - the VTTV crew's pocket. RY4Radio - Tony's pocket. UKVapefest is now too big for an individual/small group to fund.

We can live without all of them except ECCA. We NEED a Consumer Association - how can we fund it?

Cheers!

Russell

[Toonvape]

What about ecigarette / vaping companies. Surely they have an interest in keeping vaping legal in the UK. I'm not sure how else you could fund any campaign without some real financial backing unless you have a Bernie Eccleston sized bank balance.