NHS & Ash reports on E-Cigs

[lobeydosser]

These two reports have been drawn to my attention by a member of a Camping Forum that I am in.
The first by the NHS talks about e-cigs as an alternative method of giving up smoking and can be found about two thirds down the page.
www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Smoking-%28quitting%29/Pages/Treatment.aspx

An extract from this page reads;-

<LI>They aren’t proven as safe. In fact, some e-cigarettes have been tested by local authority trading standards departments and been found to contain toxic chemicals, including some of the same cancer-causing agents produced from tobacco </LI>
<LI>So far, there’s no proof that they can help people to stop smoking </LI>



The second report by ASH is wholly about e-cig and gives an up to date view on how Ash now determine e-cigs.  
www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_715.pdf

If the NHS is publishing lies like this, what chances do we have for Brussels finding in our favour?

[kibbster]

It's like swimming up river isn't it.
When the NHS are getting their facts so wrong it makes me sad.

The whole NHS position on e-cigs reeks of "don't sue us" rather than caring about anyone's health.

Do big pharma fund the NHS at all?

[Karma]

Unfortunately the NHS position on lots of things is 'don't sue us'!

Unless 'NICE' says it's ok then it's not, end of Doesn't even matter if your GP can see the benefits to your health!

[djs]

You know it always winds me up - this nugget of "spin"....

So far, there’s no proof that they can help people to stop smoking

That's right. *We* don't exist. *We* are not quantifiable. *We* are not proof.

Proof only exists if their is sufficient evidence to justify a theory or claim. In the absence of evidence, proof cannot be assumed. We ARE the evidence.

Not to worry though, in not long there will be 1,000,000 vapers across Europe who HAVE given up tobacco. Eventually the message will get home.

or it'll all be banned anyway....

[Ewol]

Feb 21, 2013 20:27:38 GMT lobeydosser said:

They aren’t proven as safe. In fact, some e-cigarettes have been tested by local authority trading standards departments and been found to contain toxic chemicals, including some of the same cancer-causing agents produced from tobacco

This is true, but written out of context. Basically trying to make ecigs look bad. They've tested some eliquid that use Whole Leaf Tobacco Extracts which contain trace amounts of TSNA's. (Tobacco-specific N-nitrosamines) (I believe) And that's why they're saying they cause cancer. Very broad statement. Annoying, really.

Although in all honesty, I don't know much about it. I just know I'm not going to use Tobacco juices. No need to.

[kibbster]

Feb 21, 2013 20:52:55 GMT djs said:

You know it always winds me up - this nugget of "spin"....

So far, there’s no proof that they can help people to stop smoking

That's right. *We* don't exist. *We* are not quantifiable. *We* are not proof.

Proof only exists if their is sufficient evidence to justify a theory or claim. In the absence of evidence, proof cannot be assumed. We ARE the evidence.

Not to worry though, in not long there will be 1,000,000 vapers across Europe who HAVE given up tobacco. Eventually the message will get home.

or it'll all be banned anyway....

Couldn't agree more, winds me up no end - it's like our opinion and experiences are worthless.


BTW: It will be a million this year in the UK alone, there are millions already across Europe

[stewarty]

It's maybe not as bad as the NHS one reads... If you go the bottom the date is almost a year old and public opinion is shifting in our favour all the time.

When I started vaping at first only about 5 months ago I got a few funny looks from friends, family and collegues now most of the same people that smoke have iether got one or are ready to try it !!!!

The article from ASH in my opinion is heavily weighted in our favour and mentions that 'experienced vapers seem to know how to get better nicotine delivery' In both articles there was no mention of our DIY liquids and focused on the shop bought products.

ASH even stated that there was no evidence that vaping was being taken up by non smokers and in fact many vaper would go back to the stinkies if they were banned.....very positive comments from an organisation dedicated to stopping people smoking

[stewarty]

Quotes from ASH

"ASH estimates that there are 650,000 to 700,000 current users of e-cigarettes in the UK. This
number is almost entirely made of current and ex-smokers; with perhaps as many as 125,000
people having replaced smoking with e-cigarette use. There is little evidence to suggest that
anything more than a negligible number of non-smokers regularly use the product"

"The potential value, and perceived effectiveness, of electronic cigarettes in aiding smoking
cessation has been assessed in user surveys. Caution must be exercised with this data
as the sample was recruited from e-cigarette users’ websites. However, one such survey
conducted internationally reported that 72% of users believed that e-cigarettes were beneficial
in reducing cravings and withdrawal symptoms while 92% declared that the devices had
reduced the number of conventional cigarettes they smoked. Indeed, in the same survey, 96%
of former smokers claimed that e-cigarettes had helped them quit, and 79% reported a fear
that if they stopped using them they would start smoking again."

[MarkS]

I found this on www.eccauk.org/index.php/uk-sitrep.html


UK Figures
2006 - a small number of e-cigarette owners
2007 - 1,000 owners
2008 - 10,000
2009 - 50,000
2010 - 150,000
2011 - 300,000
2012 - Q4: 600,000
2013 - 1m expected by Q4

I did read somewhere that the 1 million figure has been surpassed already this year and could be looking at around 2 million by the end of it. Can't find where I read it now.

Also I don't think ASH are the only anti-smoking group who give a positive light on e-cigs.

From what I read on the NHS site regarding the research done in Greece regarding e-cigs restricting breathing, reading between the lines it seems they think the research was dubious, but would not say it outright.

[Cammy]

Feb 21, 2013 20:35:46 GMT Karma said:

Unfortunately the NHS position on lots of things is 'don't sue us'!

Unless 'NICE' says it's ok then it's not, end of Doesn't even matter if your GP can see the benefits to your health!

I've seen my GP and several others in the past couple of weeks, nothing to do with smoking or smoking related but each time they've asked me if I am a smoker and I've told em my story, they've approved and said to keep it up. I believe that until otherwise proven, at least in the eyes of the educated and those that will listen, e-cigs are a far healthier alternative to smoking and a godsend to those trying to get off the stinkies. All those replies from the MPs that hint that continuing with the current laws on e-cigs may attract more people to being addicted to nic is ABSOLUTE drivel. Everyone I know is using them as a way of escaping tobacco rather than becoming a new user of nicotine...

[Deleted]

I'm really not bothered...GP wants me off nic this year. I have my plan. Already my max mg/ml is about 7 (5ml a day) so why worry?

I'll use a wee bit of NRT at that point then vape no nic for pleasure/stress...

Just don't bin all your vaping equipment guys when you all give up the nic

[lobeydosser]

I have never had any problems with giving up smoking. I have done it many times using a bit of willpower and any number of NRT products.

It was staying stopped after I had finished the NRT courses that was my problem, as it is with a number of people. I even managed 18 months the last time.

Ash and all the rest of the anti smoking brigade all rabbit on about how successful NRT products are, but they fail to count the number of ex-smokers are no longer ex-smokers 2 years down the line!

The whole smoking/non smoking issue is so full of holes that to use it as a bench mark to dictate on how e-cigs should be regulated is a total nonsense.

[Deleted]

The ASH report is very positive, but how much power do they actually have when it comes to regulation?

[lobeydosser]

Feb 22, 2013 1:09:04 GMT @mp2012 said:

The ASH report is very positive, but how much power do they actually have when it comes to regulation?

Purely advisory to a few politicians I imagine.

[stitch]

Unfortunately all I can think of is a four letter word beginning
With c add an s to the end of that ... There's my thoughts :@ angry so and so here