Mods... You may need to delete this.. but...

[Raffles]

This is totally unrelated to vaping, and may not interest many people, but it is in the news, and it's not really political, just international news... But I just can't stand the hypocropsy over the spying, eavesdropping or whatever you want to call it, regarding the Americans having been caught out over monitoring certain European leaders phones.

I would be appalled if they weren't and I really hope they are doing the same with less friendly nations, or else we would be living in more danger than we are now.

Yes the the Americans have been caught with their trousers down, but, please, all tech savvy nations are doing the same and would be failing in their duty to their citizens if they didn't. The biggest worry is that the Americans, whom, like it or not, we rely on for our defence, were stupid enough to be caught out (via a certain person currently enjoying Russian hospitalty).

Any opinions?

[Bluefish]

Everybody does it, it's just getting caught that's the problem

[OneDay]

I heard that Raffles!!

[Raffles]

Oct 24, 2013 21:43:44 GMT OneDay said:

I heard that Raffles!!

Sorry mate, was I shouting?

It just makes me so mad when people object to others who are trying to keep us safe. Trust no-one! Sorry to say.

[OneDay]

Oct 24, 2013 21:47:09 GMT Raffles said:

Oct 24, 2013 21:43:44 GMT OneDay said:

I heard that Raffles!!

Sorry mate, was I shouting?

No, I was eavesdropping

[Blownupdolly]

I'm gonna get that fish out and spank YOUR bottom. you told me off for posting bad news current affairs. Brace yourself I'm on my way!!

But seriously, you do have a point. This kind of stuff has been going on since year dot. All nations do it. Some more than others. Not sire how the Germans stand though as they pretty much had their wings clipped after WW2. I can understand her being peed off about it, but I think she is being rather naive. Saying that though, just a few months ago we were all disgusted with journalists hacking people's phones and computers and this is no different.

Not sure which side of the fence I am on yet. Needs more thought.

[Raffles]

Oct 24, 2013 22:05:53 GMT Blownupdolly said:

I'm gonna get that fish out and spank YOUR bottom. you told me off for posting bad news current affairs. Brace yourself I'm on my way!!

Dolly, much as I'd like a spanking from you... when would I ever tell you off? I'm not that brave!

[Blownupdolly]

Oct 24, 2013 22:12:01 GMT Raffles said:

Oct 24, 2013 22:05:53 GMT Blownupdolly said:

I'm gonna get that fish out and spank YOUR bottom. you told me off for posting bad news current affairs. Brace yourself I'm on my way!!

Dolly, much as I'd like a spanking from you... when would I ever tell you off? I'm not that brave!

Dolly makes a note in her secret members profile diary.......

Raffles is a closet BDSM fan. Don't mention spanking!

[vereybowring]

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains excite me ! lol

Yeah, illegal surveillance has been going on since the days of the telegraph, nothing new its just they now have to put much more resources to achieve it.
There is no such thing and private communication as such if someone with the money and equipment want to see what you're up to.

Governments, especially allied ones, like trying to keep an eye on each other and get caught quite frequently - remember the rock we had in russia, the sleeper spies in the USA (particularly humorous) ?

[womble]

There is a difference in red top newspapers hacking phones (although they really did only access their voicemails illegally through bad password management as far as I am aware) and the secret service of a country tapping voice calls of another country.

As Bluefish says, everyone does it who can and those who can't, are trying to. Getting caught however turns the whole thing upside down, people will be scapegoated, actions denied, while the true work goes even further underground. It may even stop while they try to get round the latest detection, but as soon as they think they are on top, it will start again.
Been going on since telecoms started.

Telecoms engineer for 20 years (but never in secret work)

[giles]

I'd have been surprised if Angela Merkel's mobile wasn't bugged by the US, and I'm sure she would have been too. It's all just a game.

But the world is changing, thanks in no small part to Julian Assange, for which I am duly grateful to him. I still think he's a poor excuse for a human being, but that is another story.

This fuss won't stop the US from tapping Angela's phone - if nothing else they'll want to know what Russia and Iran are learning by tapping it, which they surely are. But it is one small step towards getting our security services under some sort of control, and I welcome that, because I do not trust them at all.

[Raffles]

Oct 24, 2013 23:18:34 GMT giles said:

I'd have been surprised if Angela Merkel's mobile wasn't bugged by the US, and I'm sure she would have been too. It's all just a game.

But the world is changing, thanks in no small part to Julian Assange, for which I am duly grateful to him. I still think he's a poor excuse for a human being, but that is another story.

This fuss won't stop the US from tapping Angela's phone - if nothing else they'll want to know what Russia and Iran are learning by tapping it, which they surely are. But it is one small step towards getting our security services under some sort of control, and I welcome that, because I do not trust them at all.

Sorry, I don't give any thanks to him or ES, they are just 'attention seekers'. Surely everyone knows this sort of activity goes on and we just want to be on the side that does it better... and for the 'good guys'!

ETA: Yes, I know there are personal & probably financial reasons for this, but if it stops bombs falling on my head then we can discuss that elsewhere!

[womble]

I wonder though, what Germany has to gain now from releasing this to the worlds media?

There has to be an angle in there somewhere, normally I presume this sort of thing is kept between various departments and in private. What does Germany want from the US?

[womble]

Oct 24, 2013 23:27:07 GMT Raffles said:

Oct 24, 2013 23:18:34 GMT giles said:

I'd have been surprised if Angela Merkel's mobile wasn't bugged by the US, and I'm sure she would have been too. It's all just a game.

But the world is changing, thanks in no small part to Julian Assange, for which I am duly grateful to him. I still think he's a poor excuse for a human being, but that is another story.

This fuss won't stop the US from tapping Angela's phone - if nothing else they'll want to know what Russia and Iran are learning by tapping it, which they surely are. But it is one small step towards getting our security services under some sort of control, and I welcome that, because I do not trust them at all.

Sorry, I don't give any thanks to him or ES, they are just 'attention seekers'. Surely everyone knows this sort of activity goes on and we just want to be on the side that does it better... and for the 'good guys'!

ETA: Yes, I know there are personal & probably financial reasons for this, but if it stops bombs falling on my head then we can discuss that elsewhere!

FWIW, I don't think either of the 2 people you mentioned are attention seekers, naive and perfection seeking, probably, but not attn seeking. I may be wrong though.

Everyone wants to be on the side that does it better (even if they don't realise it), but everyone is influenced by the media, whether they want to be or not. We only know what we have been told, to a certain extent. We are guided towards an outlook, we good, them bad etc

[Blownupdolly]

Oct 24, 2013 23:33:42 GMT womble said:

I wonder though, what Germany has to gain now from releasing this to the worlds media?

There has to be an angle in there somewhere, normally I presume this sort of thing is kept between various departments and in private. What does Germany want from the US?

That is a good point womble. What is SHE after, or wanting to do in making this public?As I said in my previous post, she really would be naive in thinking that her country along with almost all others weren't being spied on. Someone of her intellect and power knows it's happening so why bleat?