Inside the L-Rider factory.

[Ewol]

Not buying them isn't going to make a difference, I bet 99% of what's in your home is produced in China and I would bet have similar if not worse working conditions.

[blakey]

Just a thought, what if one of the workers has a cold or a flu bug
They're handling parts that people put in their mouths

lol, now who have I just freaked out?

[maccafan]

Nov 13, 2012 22:11:00 GMT Perpetua said:

Nov 13, 2012 22:00:23 GMT addict said:

Where is the Provari made?

In the US . . . but whether all the component parts are, I wouldn't be certain of Addict.

Many components of the circuit are made in China as acknowledged by Provape..

It's a bit of extreme thinking that, given that one is surrounded by things made in China and developing countries where labour is cheap, starting right from fabric that goes into making clothes.

[addict]

Thanks Perpetua. Think I will get a Provari when my Twists need replacing. I don't really like the look of the Provari (will need a magnifying glass to read the digital display) but it will be a sap to my conscience.

Ewol: I don't doubt for a minute that what you say is accurate, but at least I don't know for sure and haven't seen the stuff in my house being manufactured. I do try my best to buy stuff made in western countries but it's very hard to know where clothes, etc. are made. I won't buy anything Apple since the story broke about their Chinese factory. I wish the EU, USA, etc. could find some way of banning imports unless they were produced in factories with decent working conditions. I know that's pie in the sky but I live in hope.

[alvoram]

I'm sorry but you're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think they are extreme conditions, there are factories in England that are worse. OK so they had no filters in their extraction fans, but they had fans and their chairs were plastic, but at least they had chairs What did you expect honestly? Those conditions were far better than I imagined, and I should think there are much worse industries, where staff are working in far worse conditions, over in china. Those people will be very glad of the employment they have.

[Malibu]

I was going to say also, if we all stop buying then those people wouldn't have a job/income at all, let alone a bad back when they get older.
I must admit I also took note of the plastic stools etc... but not buying would make their lives worse not better.

[addict]

Not cloud cuckoo land, just a sad feeling that someone thinks that by making such a video they can give the impression that conditions are somehow acceptable. In the discussion following the video, the film maker said that the intensive labour is cheaper than mechanisation because they work 8 hours per day without a break and that those children (for they looked little more than children to me) are taken from their villages to live what more than likely is a bed to work existence. Telling us how much worse off they could be is no more than the 21st century version of the "we are saving them from themselves" type of comments used in past centuries to excuse slavery. Anyway, I suppose this isn't the place to discuss western attitudes to exploitation in other regions of the world.

I do think, however, that the fact that almost everything e-cig related is made in China could be an achilles heel for those campaigning to make vaping acceptable to the powers that be. The cigarette industry had the advantage of being a source of employment and revenue which no doubt helped them survive for so long whereas when politicians look at vaping they will see almost all profits going to China.

[alvoram]

Nov 14, 2012 20:58:51 GMT addict said:

Not cloud cuckoo land, just a sad feeling that someone thinks that by making such a video they can give the impression that conditions are somehow acceptable. In the discussion following the video, the film maker said that the intensive labour is cheaper than mechanisation because they work 8 hours per day without a break and that those children (for they looked little more than children to me) are taken from their villages to live what more than likely is a bed to work existence. Telling us how much worse off they could be is no more than the 21st century version of the "we are saving them from themselves" type of comments used in past centuries to excuse slavery. Anyway, I suppose this isn't the place to discuss western attitudes to exploitation in other regions of the world.

I do think, however, that the fact that almost everything e-cig related is made in China could be an achilles heel for those campaigning to make vaping acceptable to the powers that be. The cigarette industry had the advantage of being a source of employment and revenue which no doubt helped them survive for so long whereas when politicians look at vaping they will see almost all profits going to China.

I'm sorry addict, I think you're over reacting a little, people do 8 hour shifts without breaks over here without breaking a sweat. China isn't your average 3rd world country, it is one of the fastest growing economies in the world. This isn't some sweat shop, it's a normal production line, just like many found all over this country. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the idea of my cheap clothing being made by kids in sweat shops in india, indonesia and wherever else, I've seen the conditions those poor children have to work in, and it isn't nice.

However this is China, in China the top jobs are very hotly contested, anyone failing to make the grade ends up working in places like this, just like here in the UK. Yes many of them have to relocate to work, I wouldn't like that, you obviously wouldn't like that, but there are people all over the world, developed countries, and undeveloped, who relocate to work. Also, I have no idea where the child labour angle is coming from, I can't see any children in that video, (I've just watched it again to make sure I hadn't missed something,) and again just like here, China has a strict age limit of 16 before you can work.

[addict]

Not over-reacting. Maybe you need to wipe the rose coloured specs. I know of no modern western democracy where workers are not entitled to meal breaks. Sure, some people do stints of long shifts, but not on a continuous basis. I'm not disputing that the factory is probably better than many in China and definitely better than those in poorer Asian countries but better doesn't make it good. Granted the workers aren't 9 or 10 year olds but they are very young.....too young to be living their lives in such an artificial environment far from home.

I'm well aware of China's growth - much of it on the backs of cheap labour. How times have changed. Not that long ago we were all supposed to believe that China was a terrible country - a one-party communist state whose people had no civil rights. Then came globalisation and western companies seized the opportunity to maximise their profits. Still a one-party communist state with questionable civil rights but all of a sudden the same category of people who dished out dire warnings about evil China are saying that Western workers need to accept lower pay and conditions to remain competitive. What a sham!

[alvoram]

addict, I can't put it any simpler than this, I've worked in places like that, if not worse, here in England, I've done long shifts with no breaks, for less than minimum wage, I've been told if I don't like it, there's always someone else willing to do my job. I'm not saying those conditions are perfect, I am saying they are no worse than some places here in the UK, and I have the experience to back it up. And this was all before the economy got bad, when I was young, working on production lines for agencies. I wonder what it is like now, now these types of employers know that the employee has even less options.

[Ewol]

I remember my dad saying when he used to work when all the factories were going in Oldham etc. (Sorry I can't remember exactly what he said) But he said he was constantly breathing in dangerous gasses and so on, but he also worked in the mines at one point. I'm a bit drunk, but I'll ask him tomorrow.

[OneDay]

I too can confirm that there are working conditions worse than that in the Uk. And I'm not talking years ago in heavy industry, I'm talking right now in a whole range of industries including, for example, food production. People are working 12 hour shifts with a 30 minute break, in cold and wet conditions for minimum wage, doing hard physical activity. Britain's opt-out from the working time directive makes this legal.

The L-Rider factory looks quite acceptable to me. And I'm a HR Manager.

[addict]

I'm shocked. I know that bad working conditions were commonplace up to a decade or so ago but I thought that nowadays most factories had decent standards. If what you are telling me is widespread (and I take your word for it), then it looks like the race to the bottom is gathering pace. What a pity. I'm glad that my working days are over.

[alvoram]

to be fair addict, my experiences are from around a decade ago, I am 29 now (I think) and it was shortly after leaving school and college that I experienced places, and conditions, like this, working with agencies. I completely believe oneday though, I expected it to be the case to be honest. I imagine that there are places just as bad, if not worse these days, partly because of the economy, but also for other reasons that I will only go into briefly, as it's a little bit of a grey area, and not one I know a great deal about. I am not against immigrant workers, not at all, our economy is built on them. But in my understanding, they unfortunately are willing to work longer hours, with less breaks and benefits, for less money, and in some cases, small companies take advantage of this. I'm under the impression that this leaves unskilled British workers in a sticky position, if they genuinely want to work for a living, and these types of positions are all that is available to them, do they just fall into line?

[OneDay]

Alvo your point about the willingness of immigrant workers is spot on. Unfortunately my experience is that many Brits do NOT want to work in these jobs and would rather claim benefits.

I know these are generalisations - but I've had eastern europeans who come back knocking the door every single day asking for work until a vacancy comes up, and Brits who have taken one look and walked away.