alvoram
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Post by alvoram on Nov 21, 2012 0:46:10 GMT
Thumbs up... Anyone willing to 'illegally' avoid import duty, yet boycott companies 'legally' paying reduced, or no, taxes is guilty of double standards, and being a hypocrite in my book. Scale has nothing to do with it! Money talks, I'll go where it's cheapest, so amazon is in, google is in, china imports are in, strabucks is definitely out (except for the odd treat ) In absolute terms you are right, but in relative terms we are talking about a difference between a few hundred quid (say, for a group buy, which you aren't guaranteed to escape) versus hundreds of milliions. i.e. 5 or 6 orders of magnitude difference. Part of the reason these large multinationals can undercut and ultimately bankrupt local small businesses is the competitive advantage they get from large scale tax avoidance. So whilst cheap is good, it has a wider cost in terms of local business and industry. At thee end of the day we need to have a bit more grown up attitude about tax. Nobody likes paying it, but we all like the kind of civilized society we live in and that costs money. Moreover, every penny of revenue avoided by these companies is another penny that needs to be raised from somebody else (usually you and I). Sadly, successive governments have either encouraged their behaviour and/or have dragged their feet about changing the rules to eliminate it. It's up to us therefore to do something about it - both by nagging our lawmakers and boycotting the most rapacious offenders. I'd much rather see those we elect (and pay) to represent us occupy their time and energy bringing these folks to book than dreaming up ever more pettifogging rules and regulations to inflict on the general public - such as new rules for tobacco display or medicalisation of e-cigarettes, wouldn't you? It's not just a case of a few hundred quid though is it, it's millions and millions the government miss out on through customs. Not only that, but what we do is illegal, knowingly accepting a parcel imported with an incorrect valuation, but we all do it, happily, me included. I still think to take offence to anyone, or any other entity avoiding tax, quite legally too, is really hypocritical. Unfortunately, regardless of the moral conflict, I still have to buy cheap. If those poor little businesses find a way to get me what I need at an affordable price, then I will support them, just look at ecig vendors, the smaller suppliers usually manage to undercut the bigger suppliers, and it's them I buy from. I agree that, for the most part we all like the society we live in. But tax doesn't need to be so high in the first place, far too much of it lines the pockets of too few people, if you understand what I'm trying to say. I don't mind paying taxes for Police, Fire, schools and so on, but I do not like paying tax to pay for the second homes of MP's, their other expenses, or bailing out banks that can still afford to pay huge bonuses to undeserving people. I could go on, but I'm sure you agree, far too much money is wasted. I'd definitely agree with your last paragraph.
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Post by domesticextremist on Nov 21, 2012 1:09:29 GMT
Well, I'm sure everyone has elements of government spending with which they don't agree*, but a system whereby we pick and choose what taxes we will or won't pay based on how they are spent is unworkable.
No two people will have the same set of preferences.
Using that as a pretext for not paying tax is a cop-out, if you don't agree with how the government is spending our cash then the answer is to vote for somebody else who will spend it more appropriately. Apathy is far too prevalent and will never fix anything - the politicians love it when we shrug our shoulders and do nothing..
*I object to the billions of pounds we have spent driving nuclear warheads around underneath the sea for the last few decades, for instance, though others are fine with it.
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alvoram
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Post by alvoram on Nov 21, 2012 12:22:22 GMT
Well, I'm sure everyone has elements of government spending with which they don't agree*, but a system whereby we pick and choose what taxes we will or won't pay based on how they are spent is unworkable. No two people will have the same set of preferences.Using that as a pretext for not paying tax is a cop-out, if you don't agree with how the government is spending our cash then the answer is to vote for somebody else who will spend it more appropriately. Apathy is far too prevalent and will never fix anything - the politicians love it when we shrug our shoulders and do nothing.. *I object to the billions of pounds we have spent driving nuclear warheads around underneath the sea for the last few decades, for instance, though others are fine with it. You're right of course for the most part, we do all have different ideas, and that's healthy, but there are things which the majority would agree on. For instance, you'd struggle to find a good percentage of people that WANT to pay excessive expenses for MP's and bail outs to businesses that can still afford to pay massive bonuses, before they repay their bailouts. Although I'm not saying that anyone should avoid paying their taxes. I'm saying that instead of constantly increasing taxes on us, they need to review some of the ways in which that money is spent. And yes, for me, that would include having a look at Trident, for the time being, at least. Why do we need to have a nuclear deterrent? Its well known that if we ever fire one, be it the nuclear or none nuclear tipped missile, Other nuclear capable countries would not be able to tell the difference, and we'd be in danger of accidentally starting a nuclear war. So they are completely useless except for the deterrent part. And the deterrent part I don't understand either, that attitude just creates a vicious circle IMO, but I'm not going to get into that, here. Dom, we're in danger of taking this thread off topic, if we haven't already. So, back on topic, I'm just going to say to close, That most of us have, or do, avoid paying some taxes, at some point, no matter how big or small, and that IMO, leaves us without a leg to stand on when it comes to taking offence at other people's tax avoidance.
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kurotoshiro
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... for the night is dark, and full of Terrans ...
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Post by kurotoshiro on Nov 21, 2012 18:00:51 GMT
Apathy is far too prevalent and will never fix anything - the politicians love it when we shrug our shoulders and do nothing. This is a tangential point, but .... I count myself as "apathetic", and in my defence, I would just point out that the basis of my apathy is precisely the conviction that there are no possible actions available that will lead to any genuinely politically significant improvements. So while it may be true that apathy will never fix anything, that's irrelevant to me, since (in my view) actions will never fix anything either.
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