Sigh, Nursing Times.

[vereybowring]

www.nursingtimes.net/nursing-practice/clinical-zones/smoking-cessation/e-cigarettes-to-be-regulated-as-medicines/5059877.article?blocktitle=Behind-the-Headlines&contentID=4530#.UcKzcrOOBfc.twitter

Any nurses we have, or if anybody knows some, get them over to this read it then point them at Prof Jean-Francois Etter, Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos, Prof Gerry Stimson, and Clive Bates (Ex director of ASH who blogs regularly).
Then they can return to this article and fill in some of the "we don't knows" free from the blinkers of the cherry picked research.

[GunJack]

Well found verey.... however common sense may be prevailing, as I eluded to here ( I know you've read this, but for the benefit of others who may not have ):-

allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/thread/25147/vaping-on-increase

[matt1988]

It wasn't a horrendous article and more balanced than many I have read.

The problem is no-one wants to come out and say they are safe after what has happened in the past in regards to tobacco products. I think it's just organisations covering their own arses.

[vereybowring]

I know but this one really annoys me as I was doing a nursing course a few years back (but had to drop out) and they were always pushing that everything had to be evidence based.
Seems they just aren't finding the evidence, or are being steered away from it.

[lynxkat]

This Reminds Me. At the beginning of this year, I attended a NHS Smoking Cessation Clinic, the 2nd such Clinic over a period of about 5 years, needless to say, the Champix, Patches and Inhaler failed me, or I failed them.

A couple of friends on a couple of different occasions, where trying E-Cigs look a likes, and recommended them to me. It was at this time (about 3 months ago now) that while researching the best place to buy E-Cig look a likes, so to speak, I discovered Vaping as you all know it and this Forum. ( Ta very much)

After about three weeks of non smoking and vaping, I popped into the said NHS clinic with the intention of showing the very nice Nurse, my Spinner and Evod (that I had at the time) that had enabled me to quit smoking, but unfortunately she was not there.

I had forgotten about that intention since, but I shall now make it a priority to do so. It may not be a bad idea to encourage anyone who has had a similar experience to do the same. I presume the nurse will send some feedback to her superiors.

[vereybowring]

I agree, especially nurses who, for the most part, tend to be more progressive in thinking than doctors (probably because they spend more time with actual patients).
Alas many vapers have reported less than enthusiastic response from smoking cessation workers.
As I said they seem to be being fed all the pharmaceutical "evidence" and not being told the real world situation.

Excellent idea though for any who still have contact with smoking cessation services.

[womble]

I do feel for health workers in all this, I presume they are not allowed to tell people about ecigs, or they could be in trouble. And if they stick their neck out, I suppose they could lose their job.

[lynxkat]

Jun 20, 2013 21:54:08 GMT vereybowring said:

I agree, especially nurses who, for the most part, tend to be more progressive in thinking than doctors (probably because they spend more time with actual patients).
Alas many vapers have reported less than enthusiastic response from smoking cessation workers.
As I said they seem to be being fed all the pharmaceutical "evidence" and not being told the real world situation.

Excellent idea though for any who still have contact with smoking cessation services.

Ok vereybowring, ( BTW, I see by all the links you are posting, you are working very hard on this, well done) point taken. so let's start at the bottom of the Pyramid and start informing the nurses, who where trying to help, you/me quit smoking as to what actually worked, they must send feedback to their Line Managers or some one further up the chain.

[vereybowring]

I'm working hard since e cigs are one of the better things in my life right now and don't want them destroyed. My sister starting using them too and I want her son to have us both around for as long as possible.

[GunJack]

well, another of the nurses on Mrs G-J's ward today revealed herself as a new vaper of 4 days standing, with kit bought from Feri's shop in town and after trying Mrs G-J's TW Cherry juice, she bought a bottle off us!! So at grass-roots level, although not in smoking cessation, the word is spreading within the NHS...promising

[lynxkat]

Jun 20, 2013 22:04:17 GMT womble said:

I do feel for health workers in all this, I presume they are not allowed to tell people about ecigs, or they could be in trouble. And if they stick their neck out, I suppose they could lose their job.

Your right womble, but I bet they have to give their line managers regular updates.

[womble]

Jun 20, 2013 22:26:50 GMT lynxkat said:

Jun 20, 2013 22:04:17 GMT womble said:

I do feel for health workers in all this, I presume they are not allowed to tell people about ecigs, or they could be in trouble. And if they stick their neck out, I suppose they could lose their job.

Your right womble, but I bet they have to give their line managers regular updates.

Who presumably promptly ignore everything which isn't NHS procedure?

While I don't think it's impossible for front line staff to make a difference with telling managers what is working. I think it's more likely we are going to have success from the top down.
Plus, managers can't change NHS directives anyway, that has to come from the government, so we are back in the old political sandwich, whether we like it or not.

[Bluefish]

Don't know where they get this bit from though,

Will they help me quit smoking?

We don’t yet know. The evidence so far is promising, but not strong enough to draw any firm conclusions.

A 2011 study and a 2013 survey found that e-cigarettes decreased the number of cigarettes consumed by smokers, and the survey also suggested they reduce cigarette cravings – although participants were recruited from websites of e-cigarette manufacturers, so results may not be representative.

It’s not certain whether e-cigarettes deliver as much nicotine as forms of nicotine replacement therapy such as patches, so they may not be as effective at curbing nicotine cravings.

However, they do have the advantage of looking and feeling like cigarettes: they satisfy the same hand-to-mouth action, give out a smoke-like vapour, and some even have an LED light that resembles the burning tip of a cigarette. This could be why a 2010 study found that even placebo e-cigarettes (with no nicotine) relieved the desire to smoke within the first 10 minutes of use.

If you want to try a safer alternative to cigarettes but are concerned about the uncertainties surrounding e-cigarettes, you may wish to consider a nicotine inhalator. This licensed quit smoking aid, available on the NHS, consists of just a mouthpiece and a plastic cartridge. It’s proven to be safe, but the nicotine vapour only reaches the mouth rather than the lungs, so you don’t get the quick hit of nicotine that comes with e-cigarettes (see box below, which compares e-cigarettes with inhalators).

[lynxkat]

Jun 20, 2013 22:34:48 GMT womble said:

Jun 20, 2013 22:26:50 GMT lynxkat said:

Your right womble, but I bet they have to give their line managers regular updates.

Who presumably promptly ignore everything which isn't NHS procedure?

While I don't think it's impossible for front line staff to make a difference with telling managers what is working. I think it's more likely we are going to have success from the top down.
Plus, managers can't change NHS directives anyway, that has to come from the government, so we are back in the old political sandwich, whether we like it or not.

Hi womble, I don't wish to argue with you, we are on the same side, I just difffer here, no offence intended. Just throwing ideas around.

The Government will base it's decisions on statistics, (I hope, if their honest ) let's give them some, from their very own sources.

And if they don't take notice, should an enquiry come about in later years, let us be able to provide the evidence, from their own staff.

[womble]

Jun 20, 2013 23:04:01 GMT lynxkat said:

Hi womble, I don't wish to argue with you, we are on the same side, I just difffer here, no offence intended. Just throwing ideas around.

The Government will base it's decisions on statistics, (I hope, if their honest ) let's give them some, from their very own sources.

And if they don't take notice, should an enquiry come about in later years, let us be able to provide the evidence, from their own staff.

Don't worry about it, I'm all for any debate. The more it's discussed the better.

"The Government will base it's decisions on statistics", yes they might, if it suits them and the statistics they tell, will be from NHS derived sources, ie not frontline staff, but pick this from a mulitichoice quiz.

The evidence won't be there, it won't be written down. The frontline staff can't write in down, as they aren't allowed to. The managers will get rid of any written stuff as it makes them look bad.
Nothing will reach the ministers who decide what will happen.

It can't work this way, it has to come from the top down and that means we have to politically win this. And ATM that means via the EU.

Getting the nursing community and the RCN (or any of the others) on our side, can help, but it's pretty impossible to start with and we should be focusing our efforts elsewhere.