Mech mods and batteries

[smarties]

As I'm rapidly becoming a vape geek (according to people that know me) I decided that I need to know what all the fuss is about when it comes to mech mods, plus it was an excuse to buy toys.
So ordered a Nemisis and a Caravela from slowtech, ordered some 18500 batteries and charger from torchy for the Nemmy but want some 18350 for the Caravela, then I start reading about batteries and the problems that can occur with mech mods and think - mmmmm maybe I should have thought this through a little better as I know bog all about what I am getting into.

My questions to start with are: will the Torchy 18500 batteries be ok for the Nemmy and what 18350 batteries do I need for the Caravela, I have a good understanding of electrical principles as I work in that sector but know very little about batteries and their characteristics.

Are the batteries likely to pop if I over discharge them (why?) and what do you look out for to avoid this and what is "safe chemistry" and all the other IMR, protected and goodness knows what.

[xs2man]

I'm not too sure about the 18500's in the Nemesis? I guess so, but can't say for sure. I have run mine with 18350 and 18650, never with the 500's. I'm sure someone else will come along to explain.

IMR is the chemistry of the battery, and the IMR's are considered to be a "safe" chemistry make up for Mods, such that you don't need a protected battery. Torchy batteries will be fine, so long as you go for his IMR batteries.  In any size you want.

I went for the Panasonic GCR18650 batteries, as many many battery "shootouts" put them as "better" than the more recommended AW batteries. I'm not sure why EVERY single reviewer seems to prefer the AW's, but there you go. I went with actual test results. The NCR18650PD's are also great, I had a pair of them, as well as the NCR18650B's, which are a beast on mAh, but apparently don't test nearly as well in many of the shootouts I have seen. In fact, it was initially a thread about the B's that opened me up to the GCR's.

As for the likely to pop. Yes, they all are. And Lithium is pretty dangerous stuff, hence why there are issues with posting batteries like this just now. To avoid this, in a purely mech mod, just make sure you change the batteries early. Should be easy enough to tell, as I find mechs get pretty weak at around 3.6 - 3.7 volts. Certainly nothing like the thump you get at 4.1 - 4.2 volts.

There are LOADS of others though that will give you better info than me. But it will be worth reading up loads on this while you wait on the slow boat from China.

[erik514]

Also you can put a kick in some mech mods. It's basically a small device with a protection circuit that you put between your battery and atty. It will stop your battery discharging too much. It also allows you to set the power on your mech from 5 watts to 10 for the kick and I think 5 to 15 with kick2.

*edit. It's also important to not put too much load on your batteries when using them by not drawing too many amps from them.  
Your battery will have a C rating, using this you can work out how many amps your battery can supply.
battery amps = (mah / 1000) x C rating
so if you have a 2000 mah battery with a C rating of 1 you can draw up to 20 amps from the battery.  To be safe though you shouldn't be anywhere close to this limit in my opinion.  (I'm not an expert, just a bit paranoid about venting batteries)

How do you know how many amps you are pulling from your battery?
Amps = Voltage / Resistance
so for example if you have a fresh battery with 4.2 volts and a 1.6 ohm coil 
amps = 4.2 / 1.6
amps = 2.6 This is well within the limits of normal use for IMR batteries so should be fine.

Its when you get into sub ohm coils that you need to be very careful, or if using poor quality batteries.

[smarties]

Thanks xs2man and erik514 so if I use IMR batteries that's protected chemistry so they are safer, good, I've also ordered a kick but didn't realise that they gave some discharge protection as well as variable wattage - interesting.

I don't think I'll be bothering with sub ohm coils at the mo as I don't want to run before I can walk, about 1.5 ohms is the lowest I use normally.

Does anyone know whether the Caravela uses flat top or button top batteries?

[kingofswords]

the caravela clone only comes with one centre pin that is really long so with aw button top i always have a 1mm+ gap(with i put on the switch section) its doesnt bother me as i brought it to be used with my russian clone with hybrid adapter for which it fits perfectly.
if you get flat tops then theres always the danger that the pin wont reach....theres alot of discussion about this on the ft forums if you want more advice on this mod.

if you can find m5 grub screws in various lenghts then this will solve the problem

that's protected chemistry so they are safer

i think theyre safer chemistry not protected...protected means theres pcb in there that trips when too much ampage is put through but theyre severely limit the amps from the batt so ppl normally go with imr as they will just burn out and melt rather than go boom, but i have very limited knowledge of batteries so its prbably better waiting for other opinions

oh theres a things calle a vape fuse aswell...dont know how safe or useful this is though

[jordan]

Protected batteries are usually ICR batteries with a fuse under the heat shrink wrap and the fuse cuts off to prevent a short.

ICR batteries generally have a higher mah rating but if they hard short they can vent flame turning your mod into a pipe bomb (I dont say this to scare you just to give you the relevant information, I have used ICR batteries in my mechs before but I never discharge past 3.7v since the vape tails off on my RBA's below that) These batteries are perfectly fine to be discharged down to 3.2v in a regulated mod (vamo, provari etc) or with a kick in a mech mod.

IMR batteries use a slightly different chemistry and as a result don't have as high capacity (mah) as the ICR batteries, however if these batteries hard short they vent hot gas, still gonna be hot enough to burn your hand but I'd rather have a burnt hand than a missing hand

In all fairness though it boils down to being responsible and treating a mechanical mod with the respect it deserves, you are sticking a 3.7v battery in your mouth so if you don't know what you are doing then it's an accident waiting to happen (the proverbial you not you personally)

The kick means you can use any of torchy's batteries but if you want a 1 battery type works in all mods kind of thing go for the IMR batteries, they don't last as long between charges but you can use them with or without the kick in a safer way than using ICR batteries.

[smarties]

Thanks kingofswords for clearing that up and by the way I just love your avatar, if ever you decide to change it I'll have it in a heartbeat lol.

jordan the pipebomb image will stick in my mind and hopefully encourage me to be responsible.

Thanks everyone for clearing some things up for me.

[tokari]

I use Torchy's 18500 IMRs in my Nemesis with no problems so far, touch wood.

[Deleted]

Jan 27, 2014 11:52:26 GMT erik514 said:

Also you can put a kick in some mech mods. It's basically a small device with a protection circuit that you put between your battery and atty. It will stop your battery discharging too much. It also allows you to set the power on your mech from 5 watts to 10 for the kick and I think 5 to 15 with kick2.

*edit. It's also important to not put too much load on your batteries when using them by not drawing too many amps from them.  
Your battery will have a C rating, using this you can work out how many amps your battery can supply.
battery amps = (mah / 1000) x C rating
so if you have a 2000 mah battery with a C rating of 1 you can draw up to 20 amps from the battery.  To be safe though you shouldn't be anywhere close to this limit in my opinion.  (I'm not an expert, just a bit paranoid about venting batteries)

How do you know how many amps you are pulling from your battery?
Amps = Voltage / Resistance
so for example if you have a fresh battery with 4.2 volts and a 1.6 ohm coil 
amps = 4.2 / 1.6
amps = 2.6 This is well within the limits of normal use for IMR batteries so should be fine.

Its when you get into sub ohm coils that you need to be very careful, or if using poor quality batteries.

2 amps not 20 amps 

[Super-Shiny]

Jan 27, 2014 16:34:54 GMT kingofswords said:

the caravela clone only comes with one centre pin that is really long so with aw button top i always have a 1mm+ gap(with i put on the switch section) its doesnt bother me

Gaps

www.stealthvape.co.uk/22MM-OCD-ATTY-WASHER-SPACER?filter_name=ocd

[Deleted]

Jan 27, 2014 16:45:33 GMT jordan said:

Protected batteries are usually ICR batteries with a fuse under the heat shrink wrap and the fuse cuts off to prevent a short.

ICR batteries generally have a higher mah rating but if they hard short they can vent flame turning your mod into a pipe bomb (I dont say this to scare you just to give you the relevant information, I have used ICR batteries in my mechs before but I never discharge past 3.7v since the vape tails off on my RBA's below that) These batteries are perfectly fine to be discharged down to 3.2v in a regulated mod (vamo, provari etc) or with a kick in a mech mod.

IMR batteries use a slightly different chemistry and as a result don't have as high capacity (mah) as the ICR batteries, however if these batteries hard short they vent hot gas, still gonna be hot enough to burn your hand but I'd rather have a burnt hand than a missing hand

In all fairness though it boils down to being responsible and treating a mechanical mod with the respect it deserves, you are sticking a 3.7v battery in your mouth so if you don't know what you are doing then it's an accident waiting to happen (the proverbial you not you personally)

The kick means you can use any of torchy's batteries but if you want a 1 battery type works in all mods kind of thing go for the IMR batteries, they don't last as long between charges but you can use them with or without the kick in a safer way than using ICR batteries.

Good comprehensive info jordan  ... I would add that if you are using an Evolv kick, the warranty will be invalidated if you don't use high discharge IMR batteries

[smarties]

Love the name of those "OCD atty washer" Super-Shiny the Caravela clone came today and my button top AW's should come tomorrow so that'll be the test - or should I just order one now as gaps will have me doing this  

[Super-Shiny]

Jan 28, 2014 18:49:36 GMT smarties said:

Love the name of those "OCD atty washer" Super-Shiny the Caravela clone came today and my button top AW's should come tomorrow so that'll be the test - or should I just order one now as gaps will have me doing this  

Cannot be having any gaps in my world, but i do live in a strange world

[VapingBad]

BTW Kick V2 requires min 7 A constant discharge rated IMR (IMR-Hybrid as most are now), it would only need this when running at full steam.

For IMRs in mechs:
Know the constant discharge rating of your batteries (just don't get them if this is not available), then calc the min resistance that will drive (4.2 / max-dischg-rate) make a note of that for each battery type. You don't need to do any other electrical calcs just measure the resistance of the atties. Then just keep your atties res well above that, don't over charge (>4.25 V) or over discharge (< 3.5 V) and the rest is common sense EG stop if the battery gets hot, lock the switch before drunkenly falling asleep sitting on your mod,... You can also get fuses, but l don't feel the need my self. As your batteries age and you notice the performance or capacity dropping don't keep well away from the constant discharge rating as it has likely lowered as well.

[smarties]

Thanks vapingbad that's pretty clear on batteries, I've been getting batteries off Torchy so he gives pretty good info on what he sells so I hopefully can keep within limits - good point about locking when drunk lol. can't wait to have a Play tonight if I can figure out how to coil the Genny
.