NHS Turnaround?

[Ripshod]

Aug 10, 2014 9:23:20 GMT MarkS said:

The problem with that is the studies regarding the health effects of nicotine such as hardening of arteries etc have been done via smoking or tobacco as the delivery system.

Good point. There is no evidence that it's the nicotine that causes it. If I can find where I read that I'll research it further. Last thing we all want is to give bad advice

[MarkS]

Aug 10, 2014 9:27:24 GMT Ripshod said:

Aug 10, 2014 9:23:20 GMT MarkS said:

The problem with that is the studies regarding the health effects of nicotine such as hardening of arteries etc have been done via smoking or tobacco as the delivery system.

Good point. There is no evidence that it's the nicotine that causes it. If I can find where I read that I'll research it further. Last thing we all want is to give bad advice

You'll be hard pushed to find any human studies on nicotine where smoking or tobacco aren't the delivery system.

I had a conversation with Prof. Peter Hajek at one of the LSE vape meets he attended, which was on a similar topic to this thread. He is doing a lot of research into Electronic Cigarettes and knows quite a bit about the effects of nicotine.

I told him that I could understand the controversy that surrounds Electronic Cigarettes and his reply surprised me.

He said "I can't, because what you are doing is more or less if not completely harmless"

[jonoclouds]

Very interesting thread.

It's true that almost every study has been examining nicotine from smoking, not vaping. Having said that, it is well established that nicotine is a vasoconstrictor. It causes the small blood vessels at your extremities to reduce the amount of blood flow, causing effects like cold fingers and toes. (It also raises BP.) This could be significant for diabetes sufferers because diabetes can also feature reduced peripheral blood flow. In severe cases, diabetics have the miserable experience of damage to body parts resulting in amputation. www.diabetes.co.uk goes as far as to claim that 50% of all amputations are in diabetic patients. The feet, particularly toes, are frequently affected.
So IMO combining diabetes with nicotine is probably not advisable for this reason. Of course diabetes + smoking is likely to be much more dangerous that diabetes + vaping.

Another poster rightly mentioned that vaping is probably more harmful than nothing at all and this is entirely reasonable. It does break down for people who use nicotine to ease the (very distressing) symptoms of mental illness (e.g. clinical depression and anxiety). For them, vaping is a much safer alternative to smoking and still gives a great deal of comfort and relief. The benefit of this should not be underestimated.

Best wishes

Jono

[buggritt]

So - have you tried asking the nurse why she was encouraging you to give up vaping? You had the person right in front of you.

[MarkS]

Aug 10, 2014 11:00:11 GMT jonoclouds said:

Very interesting thread.

It's true that almost every study has been examining nicotine from smoking, not vaping. Having said that, it is well established that nicotine is a vasoconstrictor. It causes the small blood vessels at your extremities to reduce the amount of blood flow, causing effects like cold fingers and toes. (It also raises BP.) This could be significant for diabetes sufferers because diabetes can also feature reduced peripheral blood flow. In severe cases, diabetics have the miserable experience of damage to body parts resulting in amputation. www.diabetes.co.uk goes as far as to claim that 50% of all amputations are in diabetic patients. The feet, particularly toes, are frequently affected.
So IMO combining diabetes with nicotine is probably not advisable for this reason. Of course diabetes + smoking is likely to be much more dangerous that diabetes + vaping.

Another poster rightly mentioned that vaping is probably more harmful than nothing at all and this is entirely reasonable. It does break down for people who use nicotine to ease the (very distressing) symptoms of mental illness (e.g. clinical depression and anxiety). For them, vaping is a much safer alternative to smoking and still gives a great deal of comfort and relief. The benefit of this should not be underestimated.

Best wishes

Jono

Electronic cigarettes, contrary to tobacco, do not stiffen the arteries: A new study

Full Study Link



Electronic cigarettes: no adverse effects on blood and oxygen supply to the heart

[lobeydosser]

It is high blood pressure and cholesterol that leads to hardening of the arteries and if you are diabetic, these levels are checked automatically as part of my 6 month and annual diabetic clinic reviews.

As it happens, all of my checks have dropped significantly since I started vaping over 2 years ago and are all now below the UK average. So much so that at the last check, last Friday, I have now been taken off all diabetic medication for a 3 month trial period. Hopefully, in November, I will be off this medication for good.

When I consider that my diabetes was so bad that in the beginning I spent a week in hospital with a blood/sugar level in excess of 27mmol/l and a high level of poison in my urine.
From then on I was on a large dosage of Metformin for 4 or 5 years until I stopped smoking and switched to vaping and then, gradually over the past 2 years, while vaping, all levels of all my health problems have gradually reduced until I am probably as near normal as it is possible to get.

Now there is no way that I am saying that all diabetics can be cured through vaping, but, in my case, vaping has most certainly helped my body to return to a normal and healthy level of both blood pressure and cholesterol and if it will do that for me, then perhaps it would do so for others.

[lobeydosser]

Aug 10, 2014 11:07:21 GMT buggritt said:

So - have you tried asking the nurse why she was encouraging you to give up vaping? You had the person right in front of you.

Hi buggritt, No I did not ask her outright why she was saying that. I was far too busy trying to remember to ask her for some more 50cc out of date syringes for my mixing.

Afterall, my needs were greater than her daft suggestions, but if I remember, I will ask her when I see her again!

[buggritt]

Aug 9, 2014 20:43:42 GMT spacey said:

When I told my doctor I'd given up smoking and was vaping, she said to me in a patronising tone "oh you don't want to be using those e cigerettes - I've read reports and they kill people".

I was gobsmacked by her attitude - not even a "well done" for stopping smoking.

I hope you've binned that GP? There are times when your life is in their hands.

[charliehorse]

Aug 9, 2014 20:43:42 GMT spacey said:

When I told my doctor I'd given up smoking and was vaping, she said to me in a patronising tone "oh you don't want to be using those e cigerettes - I've read reports and they kill people".

I was gobsmacked by her attitude - not even a "well done" for stopping smoking.

Any chance the next time you see the doctor you could ask for a copy of the reports he mentioned ?

Oh, and  for stopping smoking

I don't think some people realise how big a deal it is.

[spacey]

Why thank you charliehorse

buggritt - unfortunately I live in a small place, so to change surgery would mean having to go miles further and be a pain. I've never liked her attitude/general manner in the 9 years she's been my GP, so if I need to see a doctor I always try and make sure it's one of the others!!