Sky News article: E-Cigarettes Are Harmful To Lungs - Study

[charliehorse]

I think they mean that the mice were inhaling the "equivalent" of what an adult would inhale ie scaled down to represent a like for like percentage of lung capacity.

To be honest though this is what caught my eye

"Researchers found e-cigarette vapour contains "free radical" toxins similar to those found in air pollution and cigarette smoke."
"Although the study said they generated just 1% of the amount of free radicals in tobacco smoke, these molecules can damage DNA and cell membranes."

So they basically detected the toxins that we are all breathing in anyway in our day to day normal existence.

[Ripshod]

No the mice were given the full 35ml of vapour per counted draw, similar to a human drawing on an e-cig. No scaling - irrelevant results.

ETA: This was whole body exposure too, until 2 minutes after the dose was administered. That doesn't make any sense. The air the mouse was breathing was fully replaced within 2 minutes. But how many doses were administered in those 2 minutes? That poor mouse/mice never had a lungfull of fresh air during the test - constant full body exposure.

The method used a rotary device fitted with 6 electronic cigarette cartomisers, each activated once per minute

I chain vape but I still vape less than that!!

[enagee]

If this is the case (which all of us with brains know its not) then all pubs, clubs etc should be banned from using fog/smoke machines as the fluid used is much the same without the nicotine.

[charliehorse]

Ripshod - I couldn't see that in the article but the total lung capacity of a mouse is nowhere near 35ml, more like somewhere between 1 & 2 as a rough average
jap.physiology.org/content/96/5/1658

Surely the mice would have died from oxygen deprivation ?
I feel I'm missing some information here and am ready to be proved thick lol.

[Ripshod]

The method of drawing through an e-cig draws air through as well - fresh oxygen with every dose.

2 litre sealed chamber with 100% air replacement every 2 minutes. The vapour wasn't forced into the lungs, just into a position where the mouse would breath it directly. But to not have a break would be the same as vaping on every breath. That would make me ill, don't know about anyone else.

[Ripshod]

From ECITA

Sadly, there are two flaws in their methodology that make this result largely meaningless for human exposure. The first of these appears to be intentional: they exposed the mice to the same amount of ecig vapour as they expected an adult to use. This was done by exposing the mice (in a 2 litre chamber) to one, two second, puff every 10 seconds for 90 minutes, twice a day. This greatly exceeds the values derived from user surveys (link is external), which gives a spread of 80 to 200 puffs/day, since their experiment protocol works out to 1080 puffs/day. They also exposed the mice, which would have weighed about 40g each, to the same amount of vapour as that used by an adult consumer (of likely 70Kg -80Kg in weight) – a relative increase in exposure of 2000 times. It was also a whole body exposure.

From the published results.

Due to the relatively short half-life of E-cig vapor, mice were exposed in a small chamber with a high air exchange rate of 2 minutes. E-cigs were puffed according to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) puffing protocol of 2 s, 35 ml puffs.

[toots]

My experience on this statement:

The e-cigarette exposure inhibited the ability of mice to clear the bacteria from their lungs, and the viral infection led to increased weight loss and death, indicative of an impaired immune response.

When I smoked and caught a cold & cough it used to last ages, especially the cough which 9 times out of 10 would end up being one of those barking coughs - once I had that damned cough stay with me for a good 3 months.

Now, since vaping whenever I do catch a cold & cough it does not last too long and I have not been left with a nasty barking cough for weeks on end. In actual fact it doesn't even turn into a 'barking' chesty cough at all.

So my experience with vaping & colds & coughs is a much shorter span of illness and spluttering coughs

[charliehorse]

Thanks Ripshod - I knew I was missing something lol.

Just shows how skewed the results really are then.

[kailey]

My experience is similar to toots. I used to get colds that lasted for weeks. In the last two years I've never had a cold like that. At the most I've had a day with a runny nose and feeling a bit under the weather but I bounce back very quickly, often the next day, with no lingering cough or anything.

[Deleted]

I hope someone on our side is going to counter these claims, and put them in perspective! ie your just as bad breathing the air in any city.

[Ripshod]

Feb 5, 2015 14:15:41 GMT car147 said:

I hope someone on our side is going to counter these claims, and put them in perspective! ie your just as bad breathing the air in any city.

Already countered: www.ecita.org.uk/ecita-blog/new-study-mice-shows-remarkably-little-acute-toxicity-despite-major-methodology-problems as posted in Reply #13 by markm

[markm]

Another assessment of the "study"
www.ecigarette-research.com/research/index.php/whats-new/whatsnew-2015/192-ecig-mice