Getting started

[doveman]

Feb 19, 2015 9:30:02 GMT chykensa said:

Syringes - cheap as chips on eBay, and other juice ingredients suppliers too. Get a 2ml, 5ml, 10ml and 50ml for the larger batches you will inevitably gravitate towards.
Needles - if they have a Luer fitting, then they will fit any Luer syringe (i.e. most of them!). The lower the number the wider the internal bore, so a 14-gauge needle is wider than an 18-gauge.
Top tip - cover the black indices on the outside with clear nail varnish or Sellotape so that they don't wear/wash off, and then the syringe will last for months.
The dripper tops to juice bottles pop off, giving access to the neck of the bottle - this I'm guessing is how most of us mix. It also helps with the washing, done in mild, hand-hot water, with a good rinse or two to get rid of soap and flavour residue. Be warned that strong flavours are harder to get rid of, so maybe an idea to get a different coloured lid for menthols etc. and wash separately.

Sorry this is rather a random list, but it's as it came to mind. Be warned, I'll probably be editing this post and adding more stuff as I think of it!

AndyB

Thanks. I'm still not sure what I need the syringes and needles for though.

Regarding washing bottles, I was wondering what people do about washing out the nicotine base ones, as it seems like it would be a bad idea to pour nicotine down the sink/into the sewer?

[chykensa]

Mixing by dripping concentrate is fraught with problems. Different manufacturers use different dripper tops, and there is no consistency. You also have to decide how many drips you will allow per ml - apart from testing bottle by bottle, there's no sure fire way of knowing exactly.
If you mix assuming 30 drops/ml, and you are mixing in largish quantities, do you really want to be adding 5 or 6ml of concentrate drop by drop? Syringes are so easy to use and to rinse out, and will last you for months, if not years.
As for rinsing nicotine down the drain; it's no more dangerous than bleach, and you wouldn't think twice about sloshing some of that down the plughole?

[doveman]

Feb 19, 2015 9:57:57 GMT lairey said:

One other thing to add doveman... as you are wanting to mix high VG mixes for your friend, make sure you get VG Nic Base. Most flavourings are suspended in PG, so if you have 20% flavour in a recipe, the closest you will be able to get is 20/80, however, Justvape247 do stock some of their concentrates in VG.

Ah thanks, I hadn't thought of that. Whilst 20/80 might be more than enough for me, I need to be able to mix up 100% VG for my friend before seeing if he can tolerate any amount of PG so will need to get VG Nic Base.

The everything liquid bundle says to "specify any preference you may have for nicotine or flavours at the checkout page"  everythingliquid.co.uk/shop/make-your-own-e-liquid-bronze-bundle/ so I presume they can supply VG Nic Base if requested but I'd better double check with them before ordering. With £5 delivery it comes to £32 but it's still considerably cheaper than anywhere else I've seen for the Nic Base, PG and VG alone.

[Get Off My Cloud]

Feb 19, 2015 18:08:47 GMT chykensa said:

Mixing by dripping concentrate is fraught with problems. Different manufacturers use different dripper tops, and there is no consistency. You also have to decide how many drips you will allow per ml - apart from testing bottle by bottle, there's no sure fire way of knowing exactly.
If you mix assuming 30 drops/ml, and you are mixing in largish quantities, do you really want to be adding 5 or 6ml of concentrate drop by drop? Syringes are so easy to use and to rinse out, and will last you for months, if not years.
As for rinsing nicotine down the drain; it's no more dangerous than bleach, and you wouldn't think twice about sloshing some of that down the plughole?

Yes syringes are a must.

Either that or some digital scales preferably that measure in 0.01gram increments.

Those are your two realistic options for measuring ingredients.

Getting a flavour just how you like it is tricky and when you do you want to be able to recreate it consistently every time you mix it again.

[doveman]

Feb 19, 2015 10:12:10 GMT Pepperty said:

For large amounts I use medicine cups from the chemist (they have them for giving children medication orally) they have measurements moulded into side from 10ml to 75ml and I paid 35 pence each.

The other great buy is measuring cylinders, they have a nice deep base and clear moulded graduations and a pouring lip. They come in 10ml and 50ml so can be used for small or large batch mixing

Thanks for the tips, I'll pick up some of those to experiment with. Love all these cheap things we can use

[doveman]

Feb 19, 2015 14:11:16 GMT spacey said:

Do you make your own coils? If so an igo L is a good basic (single coil) dripper for testing juices (Basic works for me!). I got one from Fasttech for only a few quid, the air hole is tiny though so I recomend drilling it out to 1.5mm. here It's so easy to use and switch out the cotton when you want to try your next mix. (It does come prebuilt as a dual coil with silica wick, but you just pull them out and put your own in.)

Before that I used a LR306 atomiser which was ok and simple to use, just a pain as you can literally only put a couple of drops at a time in, and the drip tip got very warm very quickly.
Like this one

No, never made my own coils. I have enough trouble re-wicking my microcoils

My friend has made his own but he found it very hard, although I don't think he had the proper tools.

Anyway, I'll look at that igo L, thanks for the tip.

[lairey]

Feb 19, 2015 18:17:13 GMT doveman said:

Feb 19, 2015 9:57:57 GMT lairey said:

One other thing to add doveman... as you are wanting to mix high VG mixes for your friend, make sure you get VG Nic Base. Most flavourings are suspended in PG, so if you have 20% flavour in a recipe, the closest you will be able to get is 20/80, however, Justvape247 do stock some of their concentrates in VG.

Ah thanks, I hadn't thought of that. Whilst 20/80 might be more than enough for me, I need to be able to mix up 100% VG for my friend before seeing if he can tolerate any amount of PG so will need to get VG Nic Base.

The everything liquid bundle says to "specify any preference you may have for nicotine or flavours at the checkout page"  everythingliquid.co.uk/shop/make-your-own-e-liquid-bronze-bundle/ so I presume they can supply VG Nic Base if requested but I'd better double check with them before ordering. With £5 delivery it comes to £32 but it's still considerably cheaper than anywhere else I've seen for the Nic Base, PG and VG alone.

Have you seen the kits on UK Flavours doveman?  Sarah did link to them earlier in the thread but think it may have got lost with all of the other replies...  Postage is free 

[doveman]

Feb 19, 2015 16:01:17 GMT Perpetua said:

Feb 19, 2015 8:02:37 GMT doveman said:

Regarding thinning down the VG with de-ionised (not distilled as I said before) water or vodka, I was going by grizwald's post here, where he says that mixing it with PG isn't sufficient and it should be mixed down to the same thickness as the PG before mixing them together allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/post/52922/thread Whilst I'm currently using 50/50 liquids, my friend needs 100% VG and I may well move to a higher VG for my liquids as well.

Don't forget doveman, Griz wrote that excellent guide while ' Mixology ' was in it's infancy and to a large extent the gear we had to use was also. Having quite a runny eliquid at the time was almost vital for good wicking, with the modern systems we have now it's far from as necessary.

For myself, I use a VG Nic Base/plain VG/flavourings . . . I dilute nothing, as the PG element in concentrates is sufficient.

So while much of his information still holds true for today, times have move forward in other areas.

Fair enough. Whilst I'm no revisionist, maybe it would be good to either edit out the bits that are no longer useful or at least add a comment under those parts advising people to disregard them, as it is stickied and thus shouldn't be outdated and misleading to beginners like myself who will (hopefully) read it, as is the idea with stickies

Anyway, it's one less thing I need to buy and less stuff to do when mixing, so that's cool

[doveman]

Feb 19, 2015 16:18:41 GMT Q said:

I haven't read all the posts but on reading your first one doveman I have to say DONT use dropper bottles for measuring, they're not accurate enough.

and if you want concentrates (and nic base etc) have a look at Chefs Vapour, everything in one shop and they've got a good discount on their 'rebranded' range concentrates at the moment, and dont forget AAEC as discount code

OK, so a lot of people seem to be saying not to use dropper bottles for measuring but grizwald's point was that pipettes and syringes are not accurate enough to mix by drops. So how should we accurately measure and mix if we're not using drops?

Thanks for the tip about Chefs Vapour, I might get some concentrates from them but even with the discount code, they'd charge £43.70 for 250ml Nic base and 500ml of each PG and VG (including shipping), compared to £32 inc delivery for the starter kit from everything liquid, which comes with a few more bits and pieces as well.

 

[doveman]

Feb 19, 2015 18:18:34 GMT Get Off My Cloud said:

Feb 19, 2015 18:08:47 GMT chykensa said:

Mixing by dripping concentrate is fraught with problems. Different manufacturers use different dripper tops, and there is no consistency. You also have to decide how many drips you will allow per ml - apart from testing bottle by bottle, there's no sure fire way of knowing exactly.
If you mix assuming 30 drops/ml, and you are mixing in largish quantities, do you really want to be adding 5 or 6ml of concentrate drop by drop? Syringes are so easy to use and to rinse out, and will last you for months, if not years.
As for rinsing nicotine down the drain; it's no more dangerous than bleach, and you wouldn't think twice about sloshing some of that down the plughole?

Yes syringes are a must.

Either that or some digital scales preferably that measure in 0.01gram increments.

Those are your two realistic options for measuring ingredients.

Getting a flavour just how you like it is tricky and when you do you want to be able to recreate it consistently every time you mix it again.

Isn't it just as hard to accurately squeeze out exactly 4.29ml from a syringe though, as grizwald appears to suggest? Certainly in my limited experience with syringes, it can be hard to find the right pressure to make them move and then they suddenly do so, causing you to squeeze out more than you wanted to.

I did actually buy some digital scales from Maplin recently but I'm not sure how accurate they are and they do seem to take ages to settle down on a final value, which is quite annoying.

[lairey]

Feb 19, 2015 18:40:51 GMT doveman said:

Feb 19, 2015 16:18:41 GMT Q said:

I haven't read all the posts but on reading your first one doveman I have to say DONT use dropper bottles for measuring, they're not accurate enough.

and if you want concentrates (and nic base etc) have a look at Chefs Vapour, everything in one shop and they've got a good discount on their 'rebranded' range concentrates at the moment, and dont forget AAEC as discount code

OK, so a lot of people seem to be saying not to use dropper bottles for measuring but grizwald's point was that pipettes and syringes are not accurate enough to mix by drops. So how should we accurately measure and mix if we're not using drops?

Thanks for the tip about Chefs Vapour, I might get some concentrates from them but even with the discount code, they'd charge £43.70 for 250ml Nic base and 500ml of each PG and VG (including shipping), compared to £32 inc delivery for the starter kit from everything liquid, which comes with a few more bits and pieces as well.

 

I think Griz's guide assumes all bottles have the exact same dropper. I have been mixing for well over a year now, also mixing for 8 other vapers, and have always used syringes.  A 1ml syringe has markings as low as 1/100th of a ml.  They have worked fine for me, and unless you are mixing very small batches of less than 5ml, will be accurate enough for any home mixer 

[lairey]

Feb 19, 2015 18:45:24 GMT doveman said:

Feb 19, 2015 18:18:34 GMT Get Off My Cloud said:

Yes syringes are a must.

Either that or some digital scales preferably that measure in 0.01gram increments.

Those are your two realistic options for measuring ingredients.

Getting a flavour just how you like it is tricky and when you do you want to be able to recreate it consistently every time you mix it again.

Isn't it just as hard to accurately squeeze out exactly 4.29ml from a syringe though, as grizwald appears to suggest? Certainly in my limited experience with syringes, it can be hard to find the right pressure to make them move and then they suddenly do so, causing you to squeeze out more than you wanted to.

I did actually buy some digital scales from Maplin recently but I'm not sure how accurate they are and they do seem to take ages to settle down on a final value, which is quite annoying.

you only pull into the syringe what you need in your mix, not more than you need and then only dispense the required volume, the difference between 4.29ml and 4.3ml wouldn't be detectable by anyone IMHO

[doveman]

Feb 19, 2015 18:23:00 GMT lairey said:

Feb 19, 2015 18:17:13 GMT doveman said:

Ah thanks, I hadn't thought of that. Whilst 20/80 might be more than enough for me, I need to be able to mix up 100% VG for my friend before seeing if he can tolerate any amount of PG so will need to get VG Nic Base.

The everything liquid bundle says to "specify any preference you may have for nicotine or flavours at the checkout page"  everythingliquid.co.uk/shop/make-your-own-e-liquid-bronze-bundle/ so I presume they can supply VG Nic Base if requested but I'd better double check with them before ordering. With £5 delivery it comes to £32 but it's still considerably cheaper than anywhere else I've seen for the Nic Base, PG and VG alone.

Have you seen the kits on UK Flavours doveman?  Sarah did link to them earlier in the thread but think it may have got lost with all of the other replies...  Postage is free 

Yeah I looked at them thanks but they charge £26.99 for a kit of only 100ml Nic base and 250ml each of PG and VG, whereas the everything liquid bundle for £32 inc P&P has 250ml Nic base and 500ml each of PG and VG. The UK Flavours kit does have a few more syringes, measuring cups and flavours than the everything liquid one but the base ingredients are the most expensive components, so I don't feel that these extra bits and pieces make up for the fact that it has less than half the volume of the base ingredients.

[lairey]

Feb 19, 2015 18:52:31 GMT doveman said:

Feb 19, 2015 18:23:00 GMT lairey said:

Have you seen the kits on UK Flavours doveman?  Sarah did link to them earlier in the thread but think it may have got lost with all of the other replies...  Postage is free 

Yeah I looked at them thanks but they charge £26.99 for a kit of only 100ml Nic base and 250ml each of PG and VG, whereas the everything liquid bundle for £32 inc P&P has 250ml Nic base and 500ml each of PG and VG. The UK Flavours kit does have a few more syringes, measuring cups and flavours than the everything liquid one but the base ingredients are the most expensive components, so I don't feel that these extra bits and pieces make up for the fact that it has less than half the volume of the base ingredients.

fair enough, I hadn't done a side by side comparison... you will find that once you have your kit and you get started, you will replace things on an as and when needed basis... shout when you need PG/VG as most of us buy these on ebay or boots as much cheaper in the long run  

[Deleted]

Feb 19, 2015 17:58:47 GMT doveman said:

Feb 19, 2015 8:10:18 GMT @johanino said:

Best thing for shifting 30ml into bottles

Pound land shot glasses (they only take 25ml and break easily but you can get 40-50 for £1

neon ones - 40 for £1 - www.poundland.co.uk/sso-40pk-neon-shot-glasses

Plain plastic = 50 for £1 - www.poundland.co.uk/shot-glasses-50-pack

Other than that I have nothing to add

Thanks for the tip. I'm not sure I want to be using something that breaks easily for moving my concentrates around, especially the nicotine base 1sm056pullhairbut I'll probably get them and use them for something as they're so cheap

well I'm currently using about 2ml per 30ml bottle so least of my worries...

More upset when I lose my 20ml syringe LOL

See every vaper needeth baby wipes for these things