Getting started

[doveman]

OK, it's about time I started mixing my own as I'm spending too much on pre-made liquids now that I've stopped buying the cheap but not-so-great flavours in too hard to squeeze bottles and started buying half-decent stuff.

I can only deal with so much at once without getting overwhelmed and indecisive that I don't get round to doing anything . So it's probably better if I concentrate on ordering the basics and look at ordering the flavourings separately later, assuming I'll be ordering the flavourings from a different place to the rest of the stuff, otherwise it will obviously be cheaper to order it all together and save on shipping.

I prefer 50/50 liquids for more clouds, although I might prefer even stronger VG, I just haven't tried yet. My friend's trying 100% VG at the moment as he had to give up vaping PG as it gave him a really bad cough, which I can't understand as I'd have thought cigarettes would be more likely to make him cough but I guess he's special Anyway, I'll probably mix up some liquids for him to try as well, so I'll be needing the VG. I use 5-10mg liquids, whilst he's on 12mg at the moment to start with but he'll probably come down a bit over time.

I know I need Nicotine base, PG, VG, Distilled water (or Vodka) to dilute the VG, plastic dropper bottles to decant the three components into (thanks for the tip grizwald56), Nitrile gloves. I don't have a freezer to store stuff in, so only want to buy quantities that will not go bad if stored at room temperature in a cupboard in the kitchen.

I'm using a mini protank v2 and also have an iClear16 but I understand it's good to have a dripping atomiser to test the liquids on. I don't know what one of those is though, so please enlighten me.

I've seen this deal, 250ml Nic (7.2%), 500ml of each PG and VG, 2x10ml syringes, 3x1ml syringes, 10xempty 10ml bottles and 3 flavour concentrates for £27.99

everythingliquid.co.uk/shop/make-your-own-e-liquid-bronze-bundle/

Or I could order stuff separately (I've got 10ml bottles I've kept from pre-made I can rinse out, I might not like those 3 flavours and I'm not sure if I need those syringes if I'll be decanting the PG, VG and Nic base into dropper bottles)

500ml VG for £5.79 www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vegetable-Glycerine-Glycerol-USP-Food-Cosmetic-Grade-Kosher-5-Sizes-/121212171525?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Supplies_ET&var=&hash=item1c38cef505

500ml PG for £6.99 www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Propylene-Glycol-MPG-Food-Grade-99-9-Pure-USP-EP-UK-Trusted-Supplier/121076375221?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27676%26meid%3D8587116ee8c7415d8038fbd110959798%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D121212171525&rt=nc

(both say Food Grade whilst others I've seen say Pharmaceutical Grade, so I don't know if that matters)

So, are there any better places to order either a kit or separate VG and PG, where can I buy the plastic dropper bottles (30ml?) and Nitrile gloves and is there anything else I need (other than flavourings, which I'll ask about in a separate post to save my poor little brain getting overloaded)? It might work out cheaper if I can get everything from the same place, to save on shipping but not necessarily so I'd rather order from different places if it saves me a fair bit.

[Get Off My Cloud]

Wilko do cheap nitrile gloves in packs of 50 if you have a store near you that's a good option.
www.wilko.com/first-aid/wilko-nitrile-gloves-50pk/invt/0307876

You will need syringes to accurately measure quantities of bases and concentrates.

The DIY starter kits are a good buy there's a discount code for everythingliquid and some other DIY juice suppliers in the vendor forum, there's a sticky post at the top with vendor names and codes.
allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/thread/2/cigarette-liquid-vendors-discount-codes?page=1&scrollTo=2

You don't have to use distilled water or alcohol in your juice that is entirely optional and at a 50/50 vg/pg mix you're not going to need to thin the liquid

A lot of people buy their VG at Boots, there's branches everywhere and it's cheap.
www.boots.com/en/Value-Health-Glycerin-B-P-200ml_852418/

You want pharmaceutical grade base liquids.

Your nicotine and vg/pg will keep for ages as long as they're kept in a cool dark place freezing isn't necessary.

As for drippers i'm told these are good for testing juices
www.thealchemistscupboard.co.uk/product/bauway%20510%20bridgless%20atomizer
Just do a search on Youtube you will find lots of video reviews and tutorials on using it.

Dropper bottles.
www.ibottles.co.uk/child-resistant-plastic-ldpe-dropper-bottle-stubby-tip.html

[Perpetua]

@ukflavours have a great price ( including delivery ) on Nicotine Base doveman:

www.ukflavours.com/57-nicotine

As Get Off My Cloud says, even if you don't pop it in the freezer, you can expect a shelf life of a couple of years, stored in a cool dark cupboard.

Sarah's flavours are also worth trying if you're doing an order with her.

Mineral Waters on Ebay are also a good source for Pharma grade PG:

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1000ml-1L-MPG-Propylene-glycol-USP-EP-99-Pharmaceutical-grade-superb-quality-/130853413769?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1e7778a389

There's the forum calculator which is great, although I started with breaktru's and have stuck with it:

 ejuice.breaktru.com/

[Deleted]

Thank you Perpetua for the recommendations you give us, it really is appreciated

We also do starter kits that may interest you doveman starting at £26.99

www.ukflavours.com/59-diy-kits

[doveman]

Thanks for all the links / advice guys.

If £19.99 is the best price for 250ml of Nicotine base, then I guess I should just get the everythingliquid kit for £27.99 as it will cost me at least that just to get the Nicotine base and 500ml of both PG and VG separately.

Using the calculator, I can see that 250ml 7.2% Nicotine will make me roughly 179 10ml bottles at 10mg strength (1.39ml/bottle), whilst the PG and VG will make roughly 116 10ml bottles (4.31ml/bottle). Of course there's going to be wastage whilst I get the hang of it and finding what flavours I like but even 100 bottles works out at 28p/bottle. Obviously I've got other costs to add to that for flavourings, etc but even so, it looks very good.

Regarding thinning down the VG with de-ionised (not distilled as I said before) water or vodka, I was going by grizwald's post here, where he says that mixing it with PG isn't sufficient and it should be mixed down to the same thickness as the PG before mixing them together allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/post/52922/thread Whilst I'm currently using 50/50 liquids, my friend needs 100% VG and I may well move to a higher VG for my liquids as well.

As for my thoughts on not needing syringes, I was going by his post where he suggests it's too difficult trying to mix by drops using those and it's better to decant the base ingredients to 30ml dropper bottles
allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/post/52926/thread

Obviously I'll need some way of moving 30ml (or thereabouts) from the original containers into the dropper bottles, so perhaps a large syringe (ideally 30ml I guess, to save having to refill it multiple times) for each will be the best way of doing that. The everything liquid kit only comes with 2*10ml ones (without needles) and I'm not sure how I'd use those to get the ingredients out of the original containers once the levels have dropped more than about a quarter. It's probably a bad idea to be tipping the bottles to get the liquid nearer the top, whilst simultaneously trying to operate a syringe as that seems likely to lead to spillage accidents, so I imagine there's a better way of getting the liquid into the dropper bottles that I'm overlooking.

[Deleted]

Best thing for shifting 30ml into bottles

Pound land shot glasses (they only take 25ml and break easily but you can get 40-50 for £1

neon ones - 40 for £1 - www.poundland.co.uk/sso-40pk-neon-shot-glasses

Plain plastic = 50 for £1 - www.poundland.co.uk/shot-glasses-50-pack

Other than that I have nothing to add

[lisburnvapes]

Feb 19, 2015 8:02:37 GMT doveman said:

Thanks for all the links / advice guys.

If £19.99 is the best price for 250ml of Nicotine base, then I guess I should just get the everythingliquid kit for £27.99 as it will cost me at least that just to get the Nicotine base and 500ml of both PG and VG separately.

Using the calculator, I can see that 250ml 7.2% Nicotine will make me roughly 179 10ml bottles at 10mg strength (1.39ml/bottle), whilst the PG and VG will make roughly 116 10ml bottles (4.31ml/bottle). Of course there's going to be wastage whilst I get the hang of it and finding what flavours I like but even 100 bottles works out at 28p/bottle. Obviously I've got other costs to add to that for flavourings, etc but even so, it looks very good.

Regarding thinning down the VG with de-ionised (not distilled as I said before) water or vodka, I was going by grizwald's post here, where he says that mixing it with PG isn't sufficient and it should be mixed down to the same thickness as the PG before mixing them together allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/post/52922/thread Whilst I'm currently using 50/50 liquids, my friend needs 100% VG and I may well move to a higher VG for my liquids as well.

As for my thoughts on not needing syringes, I was going by his post where he suggests it's too difficult trying to mix by drops using those and it's better to decant the base ingredients to 30ml dropper bottles
allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/post/52926/thread

Obviously I'll need some way of moving 30ml (or thereabouts) from the original containers into the dropper bottles, so perhaps a large syringe (ideally 30ml I guess, to save having to refill it multiple times) for each will be the best way of doing that. The everything liquid kit only comes with 2*10ml ones (without needles) and I'm not sure how I'd use those to get the ingredients out of the original containers once the levels have dropped more than about a quarter. It's probably a bad idea to be tipping the bottles to get the liquid nearer the top, whilst simultaneously trying to operate a syringe as that seems likely to lead to spillage accidents, so I imagine there's a better way of getting the liquid into the dropper bottles that I'm overlooking.

Most supermarkets do a 'travel bottle ' kit to allow you to decant your smellys into clear bottles for air journeys , these come supplied with a small funnel , I find this handy for transferring the mix into smaller bottles , I think I payed £1.99 from tesco, also includes 3 x 100ml clear plastic bottles which are handy too ! Hope this helps

[chykensa]

Syringes - cheap as chips on eBay, and other juice ingredients suppliers too. Get a 2ml, 5ml, 10ml and 50ml for the larger batches you will inevitably gravitate towards.
Needles - if they have a Luer fitting, then they will fit any Luer syringe (i.e. most of them!). The lower the number the wider the internal bore, so a 14-gauge needle is wider than an 18-gauge.
Top tip - cover the black indices on the outside with clear nail varnish or Sellotape so that they don't wear/wash off, and then the syringe will last for months.
The dripper tops to juice bottles pop off, giving access to the neck of the bottle - this I'm guessing is how most of us mix. It also helps with the washing, done in mild, hand-hot water, with a good rinse or two to get rid of soap and flavour residue. Be warned that strong flavours are harder to get rid of, so maybe an idea to get a different coloured lid for menthols etc. and wash separately.

Sorry this is rather a random list, but it's as it came to mind. Be warned, I'll probably be editing this post and adding more stuff as I think of it!

AndyB

[lairey]

One other thing to add doveman... as you are wanting to mix high VG mixes for your friend, make sure you get VG Nic Base. Most flavourings are suspended in PG, so if you have 20% flavour in a recipe, the closest you will be able to get is 20/80, however, Justvape247 do stock some of their concentrates in VG.

[Pepperty]

For large amounts I use medicine cups from the chemist (they have them for giving children medication orally) they have measurements moulded into side from 10ml to 75ml and I paid 35 pence each.

The other great buy is measuring cylinders, they have a nice deep base and clear moulded graduations and a pouring lip. They come in 10ml and 50ml so can be used for small or large batch mixing

[spacey]

Do you make your own coils? If so an igo L is a good basic (single coil) dripper for testing juices (Basic works for me!). I got one from Fasttech for only a few quid, the air hole is tiny though so I recomend drilling it out to 1.5mm. here It's so easy to use and switch out the cotton when you want to try your next mix. (It does come prebuilt as a dual coil with silica wick, but you just pull them out and put your own in.)

Before that I used a LR306 atomiser which was ok and simple to use, just a pain as you can literally only put a couple of drops at a time in, and the drip tip got very warm very quickly.
Like this one

[Perpetua]

Feb 19, 2015 8:02:37 GMT doveman said:

Regarding thinning down the VG with de-ionised (not distilled as I said before) water or vodka, I was going by grizwald's post here, where he says that mixing it with PG isn't sufficient and it should be mixed down to the same thickness as the PG before mixing them together allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/post/52922/thread Whilst I'm currently using 50/50 liquids, my friend needs 100% VG and I may well move to a higher VG for my liquids as well.

Don't forget doveman, Griz wrote that excellent guide while ' Mixology ' was in it's infancy and to a large extent the gear we had to use was also. Having quite a runny eliquid at the time was almost vital for good wicking, with the modern systems we have now it's far from as necessary.

For myself, I use a VG Nic Base/plain VG/flavourings . . . I dilute nothing, as the PG element in concentrates is sufficient.

So while much of his information still holds true for today, times have move forward in other areas.

[Q]

I haven't read all the posts but on reading your first one doveman I have to say DONT use dropper bottles for measuring, they're not accurate enough.

and if you want concentrates (and nic base etc) have a look at Chefs Vapour, everything in one shop and they've got a good discount on their 'rebranded' range concentrates at the moment, and dont forget AAEC as discount code

[doveman]

Feb 19, 2015 8:10:18 GMT @johanino said:

Best thing for shifting 30ml into bottles

Pound land shot glasses (they only take 25ml and break easily but you can get 40-50 for £1

neon ones - 40 for £1 - www.poundland.co.uk/sso-40pk-neon-shot-glasses

Plain plastic = 50 for £1 - www.poundland.co.uk/shot-glasses-50-pack

Other than that I have nothing to add

Thanks for the tip. I'm not sure I want to be using something that breaks easily for moving my concentrates around, especially the nicotine base 1sm056pullhairbut I'll probably get them and use them for something as they're so cheap

[doveman]

Feb 19, 2015 8:42:52 GMT lisburnvapes said:

Feb 19, 2015 8:02:37 GMT doveman said:

Most supermarkets do a 'travel bottle ' kit to allow you to decant your smellys into clear bottles for air journeys , these come supplied with a small funnel , I find this handy for transferring the mix into smaller bottles , I think I payed £1.99 from tesco, also includes 3 x 100ml clear plastic bottles which are handy too ! Hope this helps

Thanks, that sounds useful. I'll have a look for them when I next go shopping (which needs to be soon as my cupboards are looking rather bare!)