This may be common knowledge

[jevans]

It's probable obvious, but I've found the lower wattage you vape at the longer the coil lasts without gunking up.

I'm just a simple soul.

Jim

[VapingBad]

Even more so with temperature limiting and lower temps, had a wick a 380 F (normal for me was 400) for about a week and keeps flavour better I would have normally cleaned it by now. Even at normal temps they stay cleaner.

Cleaning your resistance wire with fine wet'n'dry then IPA before coiling also helps, you should always clean with something like IPA of acetone first anyway.

[OneDay]

In the day-to-day world we experience wattage as heat. A higher wattage bulb burns whiter and hotter. A higher wattage electric fire gives more heat. So yes, more wattage=more heat, and more heat=more caramelisation of the juice and therefore more gunk.

[jevans]

May 7, 2015 9:27:59 GMT VapingBad said:

Even more so with temperature limiting and lower temps

I'm not disagreeing with you VB, I'd just like to know Your subtle difference between Watts and Temp.
To me they are one and the same thing.

Jim

[phatfil]

how does temp limiting work?? in my very limited experience with thermocouples and other sensors there is a can be a significant delay in reading a temp between polling a sensor and deriving a reading upto 750m/s if using something like a db18b20 for example? a couple of seconds or longer with thermocouples or thermistors where applying power to a coil will result in an almost instant effect.

[markm]

They read the rising resistance as the coil heats up and limit/reduce the power in response.

[VapingBad]

May 7, 2015 11:09:15 GMT jevans said:

May 7, 2015 9:27:59 GMT VapingBad said:

Even more so with temperature limiting and lower temps

I'm not disagreeing with you VB, I'd just like to know Your subtle difference between Watts and Temp.
To me they are one and the same thing.

Jim

Watts is "heating power/energy" that when applied to various different things at various different starting & environmental temperatures will normally result in raising their temperature.  Temperature is an absolute measure of a physical property.   Like bhp doesn't equal speed.

So in VW vaping watts and cooling (liquid delivery, airflow & thermal conduction into the mod) need to be balanced to have a stable temperature.  You  know what happens to a dry cotton wick vs a wet one at the same Watts.

[phatfil]

cat meet pigeons...

very very few temperature measurements are absolute, afaik the only 1 i can think of is 0Kelvin and we have yet to create it in lab conditions..

we cant measure absolute temperatures only approximations and then only when there is a change. here on earth elevation and atmospheric pressure both introduce an error into any temp measurement.

for example water will boil at significantly less than 100c up the top of a high mountain.

[markm]

The actual temperature is not that important, it's about not burning the wick or glowing the coil.
From the users POV it's about the perfect result for them, which is way below the danger temps.
The important element is about finding a setting you like and getting a consistent result every time.

[VapingBad]

May 7, 2015 14:24:18 GMT phatfil said:

cat meet pigeons...

very very few temperature measurements are absolute, afaik the only 1 i can think of is 0Kelvin and we have yet to create it in lab conditions..

we cant measure absolute temperatures only approximations and then only when there is a change. here on earth elevation and atmospheric pressure both introduce an error into any temp measurement.

for example water will boil at significantly less than 100c up the top of a high mountain.

Pressure has an effect on what happens at temperature, but not temperature, temperature is an unambiguous quantitative measurement of a physical property and we can measure it.

The first and best IMO temp sensing board the Evolve DNA40 monitors the resistance of the heating element by reading the volts and amps in real time.  I imagine that it adjusts the volts and reads the amps to continual adjust, Evolve have been doing real time wattage adjustment since the Darwin and IMO that gave them a very sound base and head start to bolt temp sensing onto.  It works as the temperature coefficient of resistance for nickel (0.00641 in Celsius) is retaliative high and reasonable linear, a coil will double it's resistance from 30 C (86°F) to 177 C (350°F).  This is a physical property of nickel, there is no delay in the resistance changing, but ther will be in the circuit measuring, calculating and correcting.  It can only be an average of the temperature of the entire heating element, but if you think about that it is a muck better solution than separate sensors because it is allays the max avg temp the liquid is subjected to. Not prefect but very elegant in engineering terms as well as cheap and backward compatable. It has other algorithms to better calculate the base resistance and do a fast heat up.

 

[thatguy]

May 7, 2015 11:09:15 GMT jevans said:

May 7, 2015 9:27:59 GMT VapingBad said:

Even more so with temperature limiting and lower temps

I'm not disagreeing with you VB, I'd just like to know Your subtle difference between Watts and Temp.
To me they are one and the same thing.

Jim

There is a difference between watts and heat.  Two coils of the same resistance but different wire thickness will both draw the same power, but they will heat differently.  Thicker wire will heat slower than thinner, as there is more wire to be heated.  Also, wicking makes a huge difference.  Energy is consumed by turning liquid into vapour, any change of physical state will use or create energy.  As liquid is turned into gas or vapour, energy is consumed, thus less is available to heat the coil.  The more liquid the wick pulls to the coil, the more pronounced this effect is.

[VapingBad]

It's more simple than that like the difference between speed and distance.

Watts are power/energy/driving-force and regardless of vaping, lighting or anything else they are a just measure of energy input/output to/from a system, a rate of change over time and not an property of the thing/system.

Temperature is just temperature of a system/thing at a specific time regardless of how it was achieved and is a property.

Rate: how fast you ran, how fast your fan heater uses electricity
Property: how far you ran, how warm the room is now

[letsavit]

May 7, 2015 14:10:00 GMT VapingBad said:

May 7, 2015 11:09:15 GMT jevans said:

I'm not disagreeing with you VB, I'd just like to know Your subtle difference between Watts and Temp.
To me they are one and the same thing.

Jim

Watts is "heating power/energy" that when applied to various different things at various different starting & environmental temperatures will normally result in raising their temperature.  Temperature is an absolute measure of a physical property.   Like bhp doesn't equal speed.

So in VW vaping watts and cooling (liquid delivery, airflow & thermal conduction into the mod) need to be balanced to have a stable temperature.  You  know what happens to a dry cotton wick vs a wet one at the same Watts.

We need heat to vaporise the liquid but yet we cool to create the vacuum for the vapor we inhale and it's all being done so quickly with many a variable, us being one of them....... this is the bit a cannot get my head around, you will need sensors all over the place. Monitoring the temperature with mathematics at the heat source is a pretty good idea, like I have always stated...

[letsavit]

May 8, 2015 0:00:26 GMT VapingBad said:

May 7, 2015 14:24:18 GMT phatfil said:

cat meet pigeons...

very very few temperature measurements are absolute, afaik the only 1 i can think of is 0Kelvin and we have yet to create it in lab conditions..

we cant measure absolute temperatures only approximations and then only when there is a change. here on earth elevation and atmospheric pressure both introduce an error into any temp measurement.

for example water will boil at significantly less than 100c up the top of a high mountain.

Pressure has an effect on what happens at temperature, but not temperature, temperature is an unambiguous quantitative measurement of a physical property and we can measure it.

The first and best IMO temp sensing board the Evolve DNA40 monitors the resistance of the heating element by reading the volts and amps in real time.  I imagine that it adjusts the volts and reads the amps to continual adjust, Evolve have been doing real time wattage adjustment since the Darwin and IMO that gave them a very sound base and head start to bolt temp sensing onto.  It works as the temperature coefficient of resistance for nickel (0.00641 in Celsius) is retaliative high and reasonable linear, a coil will double it's resistance from 30 C (86°F) to 177 C (350°F).  This is a physical property of nickel, there is no delay in the resistance changing, but ther will be in the circuit measuring, calculating and correcting.  It can only be an average of the temperature of the entire heating element, but if you think about that it is a muck better solution than separate sensors because it is allays the max avg temp the liquid is subjected to. Not perfect but very elegant in engineering terms as well as cheap and backward compatable. It has other algorithms to better calculate the base resistance and do a fast heat up.

 

Algorithms are always perfect, the mod, it's wiring, atty connections and my coils/temp sensors I make are not......

[letsavit]

May 7, 2015 8:00:55 GMT jevans said:

It's probable obvious, but I've found the lower wattage you vape at the longer the coil lasts without gunking up.

I'm just a simple soul.

Jim

Yep same as your spag bog Jim, let it simmer slowly and you won't have burnt spag bog to clean from the bottom of the saucepan....