To Ti or not to Ti, that is the question

[davetherayon]

Titanium wire has come up as a Next Big Thing, and vendors have cottoned (see wot I did there) onto it. Just today an email arrived offering a discount on new stocks of Ti. However, Ti02 is a nasty, nasty compound, class 2 carcinogen, not what you want to be vaping. Has anyone knowledge of this stuff and its safety level in use? I got stuck into rayon & nickel when there was uncertainty about the safety of them, so no shrinking violet when it comes to new materials. It'd be useful to get the info on Ti first though I think, with this compound that abounds. Anyone done a reasonable amount of research on it?

[phatfil]

isnt titanium dioxide the most common white colouring used worldwide in toothpaste, chocolate, paint and everything else??

www.bestfoodfacts.org/food-for-thought/titanium-dioxide-maynard

[djs]

I watched GrimmGreen on my TV two nights ago. He had a VLOG that included a section about Ti wire.

Normally, I don't just follow anything or anybody like a lemming, but his comments were based on an email from Stealth Vapes.

Maybe you should check it out.

[davetherayon]

Flipping heck djs, a firework component. Might be fun to use at parties, but um not to lob in your gob.



9 minutes in.

Edit : Stealthvape have a few metres in ("do not sell") stock.

[djs]

You know they use Ti in golf clubs. It sparks, and not just a little too.

Maybe I should slow down my swing?

[phatfil]

Im sure everyone is aware but you cant just substitute Ti for Ni Wire in a TC mod unless the mod has the maths for Ti resistance change coded in, only mod im aware of that will support Ti coils is the joytech jobby..

[b1mble]

Ti wire is likely to produce very little TiO2 in temperature-controlled use. Personally I'd use it before nickel every time.

The problem, as I understand it, is not titanium dioxide per se, but the nano particles of it that may be emitted in vaping use.

I have heard stories of Ti wire used for vaping failing violently.

[VapingBad]

On the same day Vape Mesh Co are mass emailing trying to flog this to all vapers and I feel the sooner people realise they are not vapers and don't give a dam about vapers or vaping the better IMO. This is an example of the sample Ti wire VapeMesh sent me last year, Sep I think though it was a sweetener to place an order before VapeFest that I had to chase them for, it was such a stupid size (0.83 mm) it need a 54 wrap coil to get to 0.5 ohm.




Well done StealthVape, run by vapers, for vapers and have customer service.

[-V-]

Well it's all said here for me:
www.stealthvape.co.uk/titanium_wires_for_vaping

and

www.stealthvape.co.uk/titanium_wire_update

[davetherayon]

Fun with titanium.



Reading further, grade 1 Titanium is the only recommendable grade, it should be blue, yellow or shiny silver. That grey stuff in your pic VapingBad would appear to be grade 2 or lower. Pbusardo has commented on using the stuff :

For those interested from the thread below regarding TI safety, the following is a statement from Pedro Carvalho of Caravela Mods he's allowing me to share.
Pedro holds a PhD in material science. He's also a postdoctoral researcher in material science and has more than 20 scientific peer reviewed publications.
Thanks Pedro!
And even though I'm sharing this, I'll tell you what I always do... IF YOU DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE USING IT... DON'T USE IT!!
This is not designed to condone the use of the material, just to pass some information along.
1) Do everything with vaping at your own risk!!
2) The safest way to vape is to not vape at all... just don't smoke either!!
"Without performing any scientific research on this issue and based only on my experience with titanium and titanium dioxide coatings, I would say that is reasonable "safe" as long as the titanium wire is shiny!
Even with heat treatment (dry burns) the naturally occurring titanium dioxide growth should be very thin and have high adhesion to titanium wire.
What I recommend is to dry burn (unless the process has already been done by the wire manufacturer) until the titanium wire remains shiny! If it’s shiny the oxide layer is thin and should present high adhesion to titanium wire.
Even at room temperature all titanium produces a "protection” layer of titanium dioxide, however, I believe the adhesion to the metal will protect the vaper.
Although I have no experience with NI200 wire, based on my personal experience, I would choose TI wire over NI200 wire.
Please note however, that Titanium dioxide is classified as carcinogenic 2, it means that can be carcinogenic to humans. So please do use it at your own risk.
I plan on doing a study of these wires and all wires used in vaping in the near future and look forward to sharing the results with you.”

I'll hold off till more results are in, for example the board manufacturers.

Moaredit : Mahoosive thread on ecf about Ti.

[VapingBad]

Jun 20, 2015 12:27:53 GMT davetherayon said:

Fun with titanium.



Reading further, grade 1 Titanium is the only recommendable grade, it should be blue, yellow or shiny silver. That grey stuff in your pic VapingBad would appear to be grade 2 or lower. Pbusardo has commented on using the stuff :

For those interested from the thread below regarding TI safety, the following is a statement from Pedro Carvalho of Caravela Mods he's allowing me to share.
Pedro holds a PhD in material science. He's also a postdoctoral researcher in material science and has more than 20 scientific peer reviewed publications.
Thanks Pedro!
And even though I'm sharing this, I'll tell you what I always do... IF YOU DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE USING IT... DON'T USE IT!!
This is not designed to condone the use of the material, just to pass some information along.
1) Do everything with vaping at your own risk!!
2) The safest way to vape is to not vape at all... just don't smoke either!!
"Without performing any scientific research on this issue and based only on my experience with titanium and titanium dioxide coatings, I would say that is reasonable "safe" as long as the titanium wire is shiny!
Even with heat treatment (dry burns) the naturally occurring titanium dioxide growth should be very thin and have high adhesion to titanium wire.
What I recommend is to dry burn (unless the process has already been done by the wire manufacturer) until the titanium wire remains shiny! If it’s shiny the oxide layer is thin and should present high adhesion to titanium wire.
Even at room temperature all titanium produces a "protection” layer of titanium dioxide, however, I believe the adhesion to the metal will protect the vaper.
Although I have no experience with NI200 wire, based on my personal experience, I would choose TI wire over NI200 wire.
Please note however, that Titanium dioxide is classified as carcinogenic 2, it means that can be carcinogenic to humans. So please do use it at your own risk.
I plan on doing a study of these wires and all wires used in vaping in the near future and look forward to sharing the results with you.”

I'll hold off till more results are in, for example the board manufacturers.

Moaredit : Mahoosive thread on ecf about Ti.

That goes to reinforce my feeling about VapeMesh Co's understanding of vaping and effort to understand, how on earth did they think that wire was any use, I expect companies to understand the market that they sell to.  Support Vape vendors that support you, you will be sorry when their gone and we are just left with companies just out to make a fast buck.

Ti would be OK, if you could guaranty a good grade and more importantly guaranty you never get a hot spot and I don't think the second is practicable in the real world where lit gets bumped around in use.

[igual]

Hmm I wonder if they will sell me that to wire they have leftover, I could make one hell of a flare with that hehe.
I've only used kanthal wire for Vaping, must admit I'm intrigued by the stainless steel wires.

[davetherayon]

Allegorical comment here on ecf from xpen :

I've heard of people using Ni200 or even titanium wire on mechs.. They apparently like the quick resistance increase with temp to achieve sort of an initial boost of the vape, followed by a mellower vaping. Speak about oxide colors..

Nickel or titanium... on a mech? Now there's a pipe bomb waiting to happen.

[vapee]

Jun 19, 2015 23:05:45 GMT VapingBad said:

On the same day Vape Mesh Co are mass emailing trying to flog this to all vapers and I feel the sooner people realise they are not vapers and don't give a dam about vapers or vaping the better IMO. This is an example of the sample Ti wire VapeMesh sent me last year, Sep I think though it was a sweetener to place an order before VapeFest that I had to chase them for, it was such a stupid size (0.83 mm) it need a 54 wrap coil to get to 0.5 ohm.




Well done StealthVape, run by vapers, for vapers and have customer service.

That is one huge coil lol, looks heavier than the atty!

I havn't read the experiences with the evic-t ti heads but also Imeo was suggesting ti for the vir mod as well as stainless steel wire in favour of nickel, I think the dna 200 can be programmed for ti but its not the default wire at least, I think the dicodes temp limiting mods too can do all, but again not sure which is the recommended one. Wonder then whether theres been some official kind of testing to ti and maybe different grades. Seems grade 1 is the one thats preferred usually. Maybe stainless is next to look into if it might have less risk overall, not looked into it much though but i've read that some people have tried it.

I guess some kind of analysis of the health effects from using ti or nickel which limits overheating but may have other possible risk if accidentally used in non temp mode for dry burning which may be less likely, or if it somehow gets as hot as kanthal, but that could be due to the chip malfunctioning which also doesn't seem too likely. Then that compared to the risk of using kanthal which has the risk of over heating the liquid. Both seem to not be a regular occurrence usually and would depend on the ways they are used and the device quality over time.

The one benefit of kanthal is its been used widely for a while now in ecigs but also nickel has been in the last year, seems thats the main way maybe to figure if itll be safe or not as testing the wires in the lab would maybe take 1000s of tests to simulate use over time and also if the wire gives off anything unpleasant it would also need to be tested to see if theres a worrying amount in the vapor or not and finally if that amount even has any health effects over many years. Its the same sort of thing I guess with any medical testing though, the lab tests can guess things to a certain extent but nothing is generally tested these days for decades to see what happens over that life span including everything fda etc approved.

[davetherayon]

So. Being the kind of loose-cannon guy who isn't bound by the rules (like the Veet guy) I went ahead and ordered some 0.3 Titanium wire, Grade A, from CrazyWire. A company that's been reliable and dependable in the past. What could go wrong?

I had also taken the liberty of getting a eVIC-T to try it out on, though the guys over at ecf were having results with a DNA40, typically running it at 100F less than the equivalent Ni ohmage. Better safe than singed. First though the wire had to be cleaned, even as it appeared shiny silver, the modus operandi is to clean it with isopropyl and then a wire brush (or, in this case, a Brillo pad) to get rid of any and all impurities and excess Ni02 that may form.

That done, on to the wicking, on an eVIC CLR, the optional rebuildable. Ti is really springy compared to Ni or Kanthal, and after winding 8 times on a bolt and threading it into the CLR, it was close to the edges of the atty, but clear. ecf recommend pulsing it at a low temperature to turn the colour to yellow or blue, which supposedly forms a protective layer of Ni02 which is strongly adhesive to the base metal. I figured with a bit of heating it could also be squeezed with the ceramic tweezers. So onto the eVIC it went. Temperature control, Ti, 200F (the lowest possible).

Pressed the fire button. Peering at the coil, it wasn't visibly heating up or changing colour, so I cranked the temperature up to 300F, 20W, and had another go. FLASH. There was a silent explosion of light, just like a camera flashbulb in your face, it was that bright. The atty resistance re-registered at 0 ohms. Instant hot spot, instant ignition.

Quite frit me up did that. It's very different from the red melting you see on a Kanthal/Ni wire when it has a short, no warning there's a short in place, just FLASH and gone. I hate to imagine what could happen if it had been a higher voltage and temperature; heating the surrounding coil enough to carry the short to a fire? Maybe not. But it's put me off the CLR for now.