Vaping banned on beach (UK)

[nanotm]

as soon as the signs go up they can hand out legally enforceable fines for public order offences if they have the ASBO enforcement stickers on posts around the area those on the spot fines notices can be up to £1000

that rather changes the nature of the "voluntary" status of the no smoking status of the beach, its an nasty trick and drake fords hands are all over it, remember people its not a ban .......

[Richard46]

Mar 10, 2016 20:01:57 GMT nanotm said:

as soon as the signs go up they can hand out legally enforceable fines for public order offences if they have the ASBO enforcement stickers on posts around the area those on the spot fines notices can be up to £1000

that rather changes the nature of the "voluntary" status of the no smoking status of the beach, its an nasty trick and drake fords hands are all over it, remember people its not a ban .......

So you would advise us not to attempt to vape on any of these beaches with advisory or voluntary vaping 'bans'?

[nanotm]

Mar 10, 2016 20:22:09 GMT Richard46 said:

Mar 10, 2016 20:01:57 GMT nanotm said:

as soon as the signs go up they can hand out legally enforceable fines for public order offences if they have the ASBO enforcement stickers on posts around the area those on the spot fines notices can be up to £1000

that rather changes the nature of the "voluntary" status of the no smoking status of the beach, its an nasty trick and drake fords hands are all over it, remember people its not a ban .......

So you would advise us not to attempt to vape on any of these beaches with advisory or voluntary vaping 'bans'?

i'd advise that you check the surrounding posts to ensure the area hadn't been declared as an asbo zone, i'd also point out that under UK law standard "no-smoking" signs are legally enforceable, so unless they are non standard they will have the same effective prohibition status as they do in bus shelters phone boxes and other similar places, sure the plod generally cant be bothered but you never know when one of them is keen to get back to the shop for a skive ....

[Chrissie]

Mar 10, 2016 20:41:45 GMT nanotm said:

i'd also point out that under UK law standard "no-smoking" signs are legally enforceable.

But any No vaping signs aren't.

[nanotm]

Mar 10, 2016 21:31:40 GMT Chrissie said:

Mar 10, 2016 20:41:45 GMT nanotm said:

i'd also point out that under UK law standard "no-smoking" signs are legally enforceable.

But any No vaping signs aren't.

indeed that's true but doesn't the recent welsh assembly law change make no smoking signs apply equally to vaping as well ?

unless the local council write a special bylaw to undermine the effect its my understanding that simply by putting up no smoking signs in a public space they are in fact implementing a totalitarian legally enforceable ban on people partaking in such activities in that place.

were this a beach elsewhere in the UK then it might not be the case because so far nowhere else has amended anti smoking laws.

[djs]

* forget it * (edit)

I recommend a day trip there so we can all vape. What are they going to do? Send in the Army.

They deserve much ridicule.

[Richard46]

Mar 10, 2016 20:41:45 GMT nanotm said:

Mar 10, 2016 20:22:09 GMT Richard46 said:

So you would advise us not to attempt to vape on any of these beaches with advisory or voluntary vaping 'bans'?

(...) i'd also point out that under UK law standard "no-smoking" signs are legally enforceable, (...)

Can you point us to the statute that says such signs are legally enforceable - in open spaces? 

[RangersBillyBoy]

Mar 11, 2016 1:55:23 GMT Richard46 said:

Mar 10, 2016 20:41:45 GMT nanotm said:

(...) i'd also point out that under UK law standard "no-smoking" signs are legally enforceable, (...)

Can you point us to the statute that says such signs are legally enforceable - in open spaces? 

Richard46 good question. 

At this time I do not believe that current tobacco control legislation carries any mention of open public spaces. However......

The use of local by-laws are all that is needed.
By-laws ARE enforceable by way of a FPN (fixed penalty notice.)

[nanotm]

Mar 11, 2016 1:55:23 GMT Richard46 said:

Mar 10, 2016 20:41:45 GMT nanotm said:

(...) i'd also point out that under UK law standard "no-smoking" signs are legally enforceable, (...)

Can you point us to the statute that says such signs are legally enforceable - in open spaces? 

I can tell you there's a clause under the 1996 six pack regulations (health and safety) which makes disobeying various listed signs a criminal offence, and no smoking signs are in the list of "prohibition notices" that "must be obeyed"

which is a major part of why I inferred that it depends on if they utilise the standard signage or custom signage,

if they choose the custom signage route then it would require a bylaw to enforce them,

but if they choose standard notices then they are elf n safety prohibition ones so they can side step things,

or choose the quick n simple option of putting out the ASBO zone stickers and then cash in from "rule breakers" via the FPN, without needing to change any bylaws (quick simple monetization) or needing a magistrate to pass ruling over breaking H&S laws.....

[Richard46]

Mar 11, 2016 9:12:26 GMT nanotm said:

Mar 11, 2016 1:55:23 GMT Richard46 said:

Can you point us to the statute that says such signs are legally enforceable - in open spaces? 

I can tell you there's a clause under the 1996 six pack regulations (health and safety) which makes disobeying various listed signs a criminal offence, and no smoking signs are in the list of "prohibition notices" that "must be obeyed"

which is a major part of why I inferred that it depends on if they utilise the standard signage or custom signage,

if they choose the custom signage route then it would require a bylaw to enforce them,

but if they choose standard notices then they are elf n safety prohibition ones so they can side step things,

or choose the quick n simple option of putting out the ASBO zone stickers and then cash in from "rule breakers" via the FPN, without needing to change any bylaws (quick simple monetization) or needing a magistrate to pass ruling over breaking H&S laws.....

Thanks nanotm I would like a look at that but cannot find this 1996 act.

Also I cannot see how a No Smoking sign can be interpreted as meaning No Vaping; if you where suugesting that. If not then they do not affect vapers obviously.

[Richard46]

Ah sorry found something now. www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l64.htm

But surely this is workplace legislation. Cannot be applied to any 'open space'. Which is what I thought we where talking about.

[nanotm]

Richard46

you might be right,

as I understand the rules though anywhere that is "a normal place of work" is covered under the regulations and applies equally to employees and visitors, so the derivation comes under the signs and designation of the area, of course its not helped by there being reams upon reams of legislation that can be used.

the asbo act allows any area to be designated as a control zone, section one could be interpreted to mean any act that causes harm or damages the health of others,

the tobacco control laws imply that smoking damages health to those around the smoker,

which would imply the laws can be rolled together to provide FPN's to anyone deemed to be smoking in a no smoking area even if that area is outside,

its true the test will be based on the first person that gets fined and goes to court to fight it off and what the outcome is,

and its also true that so far its been implied this a voluntary idea and there is no intent to issued penalty notices

but given the recent anti vape/smoke law designating open spaces as smoke free I cant see that remaining the case

[Deleted]

My newbie vaper I told you about the other week at the drop in proudly told me this week she 'has seen someone vaping on the bus - no bother' when it's been banned on my local buses for ages!!!

So bring out the CE4's and high PG juice with a little stealth vaping (which my newbie vaper already does)

and job done!!!

CE4's maybe ridiculed on here but I'm beginning to like them and they are only £1 (complete carto) at home bargains

[djs]

Mar 11, 2016 12:40:34 GMT @johanino said:

CE4's maybe ridiculed on here but I'm beginning to like them and they are only £1 (complete carto) at home bargains

They are. They have them in the Welsh HB shops too.