Now some good news about the TPD and it's impact post May

[DiscoDes]

Actually there is lots of good news coming out about how the TPD will be applied here in the UK:

The latest good news seems to be that juice vendors will only need to supply a Emissions & Toxicoligy test for the highest nicotine content in their e-liquid range i.e if you manufactured a juice in 18, 12, 6 & 3 mg strength rather than test all 4 you only will need to test the 18mg. This is great news for the juice vendors and therefore us. It means that there is less cost to be passed on to us the customer. 0mg juice does not come under the TPD.

At the moment NO Juice manufacturers can send their juices to the DOH/MHRA for Emissions & Toxicoligy testing as the DOH/MHRA has yet to ratify the testing and get the test & certification facilities in place. This does not mean that no one can supply juice after May, it means that until the DOH/MHRA gets the testing sorted out and in place that we can carry on buying pre-made juice as before. There has been no indication from the DOH/MHRA when they will be in a position to start testing.

Next is the 2ml tank "limit"
It seems that already tank & atomiser manufacturers are supplying goods with a "spare" glass. So you get your 2ml tank brand new and when you get it you swap it for the 5ml "spare" tank glass that comes with the atomiser. Now you have a 5ml tank atomiser that was shipped and sold in a TPD compliant state.
Drippers/squonkers do not come under this limit as they do not have a tank.


See here at 1:08:00

[chykensa]

That is indeed good news, thanks for posting DiscoDes! I knew there would be 'legal' ways of getting around the TPD restrictions; I particularly like the 'spare tank' philosophy, right up my street!

[jtc]

Always great to hear about people getting around BS laws.
Cheers for the info DiscoDes

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[Roscopecotrain]

Excellent Des.

[kreed]

Great news.

The spare glass thing is genius........what about spare longer chimneys?

[nanotm]

Apr 8, 2016 15:20:58 GMT kreed said:

Great news.

The spare glass thing is genius........what about spare longer chimneys?

if the spare glass is produced correctly it will just be wider than the original fitted unit and wont require larger chimneys ....

I expect the TPD will get modified at the EU level to outlaw such practice though and so the options will become limited to ordering the spare glass from the overseas location(s) to fit the compliant kit with or without the replacement top gear ...

I do have 1 question about "compliant kit"; will any of it actually be better than stuff already on the market in terms of health for the users or will it be just like the old carto cigalike stuff that is vastly inferior once the EC gets round ot finalising its technical specs on "compliant" stuff ?

I cant see the new regulations allowing people to continue using simple top-fill tank kits or allowing us to legally obtain mech mods in the future given the H&S problems such devices present in terms of allowing spills or causing harm through incorrect use .....

chances are they will regulate the batteries out of existence to remove the majority of problems an require all new mods to have compliance certification, not that it will stop production or sales of "non compliant" things from china but it would give customs the chance to seize them .....

the TPD is a slippery slope and its going to get steeper as has already been signalled by various people within the EUP and EC responsible for drawing up revisions or new parts to it, whilst it isn't due for review until 2021 that can easily be brought forward at any point and various vape groups seem determined to try and force it regardless of if that will end up with a more negative issies or not ....

[ceedee]

My understanding is that the MHRA believe that the results of only one test per 'flavour line' will be required but that it doesn't matter which nicotine strength is used - not the highest in that 'flavour line':


The MHRA won't be doing any testing of juices themselves, except presumably the odd spot-check for accuracy - it's up to the juice-producers to get the testing and analysis done either in-house or by third-party laboratories (at considerable cost) and then input the data into the EU-CEG online database.

I don't understand what point Dave was making about not knowing what will be compliant.
While it's certainly the case that we won't be sure which atomiser features will be acceptable to the MHRA until details of those products are published, the EU's notification data dictionary explains fairly precisely what information will be required for juices to be acceptable.
But any claim that a current product is "TPD-compliant" is stretching the truth as no producers will have any idea if the MHRA will deem their notification to be complete (let alone, compliant) until they've entered their notification data into the EU-CEG system. And they can't even start that process until May!

I've seen no official indication that 5ml 'spare' tanks within the packaging of (hopefully) 'compliant' 2ml TPD ones will be acceptable to the MHRA but maybe Dave had heard that unofficially.

[DiscoDes]

Apr 8, 2016 15:44:23 GMT ceedee said:

I've seen no official indication that 5ml 'spare' tanks within the packaging of (hopefully) 'compliant' 2ml TPD ones will be acceptable to the MHRA but maybe Dave had heard that unofficially.

On a previous show he showed a tank, although I can't remember which one it was where it was supplied as a 2ml tank and had a spare "Fat Boy" barrel shaped tank glass that took the capacity up to 4 or 5ml.

I take on board your other points, however it still does not alter the good news about only one liquid strength in a range having to be tested.

Also hifistud postulated that the DOH/MHRA may never get around to sorting out the toxicoligy/emissions testing.
I believe that we in the UK have got off lightly when compared to some of our European Cousins when it comes to the implementation of the TPD. This is in no small part due to the very active campaigning by various Vaper groups and now being taken forward also notably by Clive Bates and the NNA (New Nicotine Alliance) in my opinion. At the moment it does indeed seem that the Government in England is indeed taking the "light touch" approach.

Also Vapers In Power (VIP) have successfully raised over £3,000 to field 2 candidates for election to the Welsh Assembly so getting representation in there and helping to ensure that Drakeford & labour don't have such a easy ride to pass the ridiculous restrictions on Vaping in South Wales based on no evidence whatsoever other than personal punile puritanical views that was so narrowly avoided recently. Well done blaze and everyone else involved!

[Bob]

Apr 8, 2016 15:44:23 GMT ceedee said:

My understanding is that the MHRA believe that the results of only one test per 'flavour line' will be required but that it doesn't matter which nicotine strength is used - not the highest in that 'flavour line':


The MHRA won't be doing any testing of juices themselves, except presumably the odd spot-check for accuracy - it's up to the juice-producers to get the testing and analysis done either in-house or by third-party laboratories (at considerable cost) and then input the data into the EU-CEG online database.

I don't understand what point Dave was making about not knowing what will be compliant.
While it's certainly the case that we won't be sure which atomiser features will be acceptable to the MHRA until details of those products are published, the EU's notification data dictionary explains fairly precisely what information will be required for juices to be acceptable.
But any claim that a current product is "TPD-compliant" is stretching the truth as no producers will have any idea if the MHRA will deem their notification to be complete (let alone, compliant) until they've entered their notification data into the EU-CEG system. And they can't even start that process until May!

I've seen no official indication that 5ml 'spare' tanks within the packaging of (hopefully) 'compliant' 2ml TPD ones will be acceptable to the MHRA but maybe Dave had heard that unofficially.

There were quite a few eJuice players at Vape Jam claiming that their products were TPD compliant - I wasn't listening to them though - they obviously didn't know what they were talking about.

[ceedee]

Apr 8, 2016 15:59:30 GMT DiscoDes said:

Apr 8, 2016 15:44:23 GMT ceedee said:

I've seen no official indication that 5ml 'spare' tanks within the packaging of (hopefully) 'compliant' 2ml TPD ones will be acceptable to the MHRA but maybe Dave had heard that unofficially.

On a previous show he showed a tank, although I can't remember which one it was where it was supplied as a 2ml tank and had a spare "Fat Boy" barrel shaped tank glass that took the capacity up to 4 or 5ml.

I take on board your other points, however it still does not alter the good news about only one liquid strength in a range having to be tested.

Also hifistud postulated that the DOH/MHRA may never get around to sorting out the toxicoligy/emissions testing.

That a spare 5ml 'fat boy' tank is currently supplied with a 2ml tank is no indication that it will be acceptable to the MHRA enabling it to be "sold in a TPD compliant state" as you originally put it.

I certainly agree that reducing the number of tests required per juice line is very good news and a potential lifeline for many smaller juice producers.
Adding the "highest nicotine content" test requirement just confuses matters.

Perhaps I missed it in the video but I'm unsure what Dave believes needs "sorting out" in the reporting of the toxicology / emissions testing for juices.
Maybe something to do with the extent to which analysts are supposed to search for previously reported negative health effects?
But the point I was making was that it is not the MHRA's responsibility to do the testing and analysis.

[tsoko]

Well done DiscoDes looks like good news

[Bob]

Apr 8, 2016 16:30:09 GMT ceedee said:

Apr 8, 2016 15:59:30 GMT DiscoDes said:

On a previous show he showed a tank, although I can't remember which one it was where it was supplied as a 2ml tank and had a spare "Fat Boy" barrel shaped tank glass that took the capacity up to 4 or 5ml.

I take on board your other points, however it still does not alter the good news about only one liquid strength in a range having to be tested.

Also hifistud postulated that the DOH/MHRA may never get around to sorting out the toxicoligy/emissions testing.

That a spare 5ml 'fat boy' tank is currently supplied with a 2ml tank is no indication that it will be acceptable to the MHRA enabling it to be "sold in a TPD compliant state" as you originally put it.

I certainly agree that reducing the number of tests required per juice line is very good news and a potential lifeline for many smaller juice producers.
Adding the "highest nicotine content" test requirement just confuses matters.

Perhaps I missed it in the video but I'm unsure what Dave believes needs "sorting out" in the reporting of the toxicology / emissions testing for juices.
Maybe something to do with the extent to which analysts are supposed to search for previously reported negative health effects?
But the point I was making was that it is not the MHRA's responsibility to do the testing and analysis.

The way I heard it mentioned a while back, can't remember where, was that the compliant tank would be sold with the offer of a spare tank sold separately, so not in the same box

[tsoko]

Do you really think the limit of 2ml on tanks is going to bother the dedicated vaper? I don't think it will bother me.

[nanotm]

Apr 8, 2016 17:02:14 GMT tsoko said:

Do you really think the limit of 2ml on tanks is going to bother the dedicated vaper? I don't think it will bother me.

at the very worst it will give life to a new business of selling miniature glass bowls designed for use in plumbing ....... sold as a separate area of business via B&M vape stores that also like magic just happen to fit the most common tank units in larger than tpd sizes .....

I don't think there will be any shortage of such enterprising inspection glass manufacturing mini business opportunities in the future

I also wouldn't be surprised if the much talked about tech specs on leak free refills demand disposable single use systems (aka carto's) of course if we are no longer part of the EU by then such problems wont infect the UK consumer market which in turn will increase the numbers of European vapers coming here to buy their supplies or indeed the amount of black market trade being done with other EU wide customers, of course all paying the required taxes here and avoiding regulations and scrutiny there ......


the problems they are talking about creating will get worse instead of better as they introduce ever more ludicrous legislation and the faster we leave the EU the better for our day to day vaping habit.....

[Richard46]

Sorry but Vapour Trails are far too tedious to watch is there a direct source for this information? Thanks