A question of ethics, morals and dilemas?

[lobeydosser]

I think Man has been "tampering with nature" ever since he learned to walk upright and possibly before that if some of the recent natural history programs on TV are to be believed.

Unfortunately it is only the mistakes we make when we tamper with nature that are well publicised, while much of the goodness that comes out of these endeavours remain almost secret and are only beneficial to a relative few.

We have a lot to learn from the natural world that surrounds us and although there are bound to be more mistakes made in the future, long may we continue to seek out the goodness that experimenting with nature could bring to change our lives for the better.

[crump]

Wouldn't removing alcohol and nicotine from the equation just make people look elsewhere for a "buzz"? By all accounts we're pretty imaginative.

[DaveJ]

Knee jerk reaction: After so much money wasted on smoking over all those years, I kinda wish I was immunized against nicotine when young.

But then I thought more about it. No - I wouldn't thank my parents now if they had removed that choice from me back then.

So no - if I had kids - I'd not consider this sort of vaccine for them. That said, I'd also do my level best to guide them away from smoking and irresponsible alcohol use.

[striker42]

On the subject of silly questions, I have a couple. (ok, three actually)
1. Is the vaccination a one off, once in a lifetime procedure or would it have to be repeated every 3/5/10 years etc. to maintain the desired effect ?
2. Will there be, could there be or is there ever any likelihood somewhere along the line of any detrimental side effects ?
3. The vaccine, by my way of reading things, only prevents the subject from attaining pleasure, it still doesn't guarantee they won't partake in the intake of nicotine or alcohol. Does it ?
On the little information available it would be a no from me.

[bioxx]

Possible side effects could be that it knocks out pleasure from other things as well. Some are hooked to coffee *raises his hand* others to things like cleaning The pleasure centre of the brain is difficult to control so I really wonder what else comes along with this.

[lobeydosser]

Of the ten million smokers in the UK, I guess we all have our reasons for starting smoking and the couple of the million that have now changed over to Vaping, we all had our own reasons for doing so. If there was a vaccine out there that we could, as adults, choose to have, that would take away the need for Nicotine, whether we would choose to take it is a question only the adult individual could make.

I, on the other hand have had more experience with the good and the bad of alcohol and as it has directly affected me for over 50 years, so I feel that my answer may be of some worth to some of you.

I did not drink alcohol, apart from a few Hot Toddies when very young, until I was over 18 years of age. I then became aware of the social side of drinking and wanted more and more of it. Gradually over a period of about 20 years alcohol took me to many exciting places, including overseas, through it I met many very interesting people and got myself into many dubious and somewhat dangerous situations.
The world is an interesting place, especially when viewed through the bottom of a whisky glass!!!!

When eventually my alcohol induced world fell apart and I had to seek help through the services of AA, it took me some time to come to terms with the real world.
Having never gone anywhere without a few shots to give me courage, walking into the Dentist, Doctors, Job Interview or any one of the normal day to day situations that other people do without thinking about, to do so stone cold sober were all major achievements for me.
However, thankfully there are thousands of AA Meetings held in the UK every week in which hundreds of thousands of guys and gals, just like me, attend and support each other and so, no matter where I was, I was safe in the knowledge that help was always close by.
Ofcourse, this all happened before the WWW and face to face meeting were the name of the game.

Over the last 30+ sober years I have met many hundreds of very interesting people, visited many interesting places and never found myself in any dubious or dangerous places.
I have been in Prisons with Murderers and Mental Institutions with those that will be there for the rest of their lives. In both places I was a visitor and fortunately not an inmate. But, if I ever lift another drink, these 2 places are sitting there waiting for me.

So, if there was a vaccine that cure/kill/whatever I have experienced in the last 50 years, would I want to take it or would I want someone else to administer it to me without my consent?
Categorically NO!

Alcohol has afforded me a really interesting life and whilst, in the past I have hurt the feelings of people I loved and I deeply regret that, it has also given me a much more open and contented view of my world and the world around me.
To take away that privilege from anyone would be morally wrong.

[gill2009]

  A very brave & informative post lobeydosser 

[lobeydosser]

Jan 14, 2017 16:29:11 GMT gill2009 said:

  A very brave & informative post lobeydosser  

No, not brave at all gill2009.

It all happens just "One Day At A Time" and after all this time, thankfully it is just second nature.

But thank you anyway.

[striker42]

It was certainly a most informative and heart on your sleeve post lobeydosser. Thanks for sharing your personal experience with us. However, my experience with alcohol led me to my one and only AA meeting when I was 23. Having lost three days through drink and I mean three days of not knowing where I'd been, who I had been with or what I had been doing, I decided then I needed help. Having been there once, I wasn't too keen and decided the only way for me was to give myself a shake, take a kick in the arse from a few people (first in that cue was my Dad) and sort myself out. Now 27 years on, I can take alcohol or leave it, in most cases I'll leave it. You may look at this and say, as others have that I wasn't an alcoholic, as an alcoholic can't take a drink and that might be the case IDK. What I did know was I had a drink problem and needed to address it. I'm not going into all the other crap that alcohol got me into from the age of 16-25, as it ain't too pleasant and there's not a lot that I'm proud of at that time. Hopefully what I learned back then has made me a better person today. Having gone through all that shit, it would still be a no. Wonder if there will be a vaccination, for cocaine, heroine, cannabis, gambling. Who knows where interfering with nature will take us.

[gill2009]

  Another honest heart-felt post striker42 

[Clivia]

back to the original question : NO I certainly would not - I don't have children of my own, but have nephews and nieces.

Polio vaccines or vaccines for other life threatening diseases are a completely different subject imho

why using a child as a guinea pig ( I know it's only hypothetical and this vaccine does not exist ) - I am against any medication, which is not necessary - even if it did exist, it would take years to see the side effects and there is nicotine for example also in tomatoes and as I have read somewhere ( sorry can't remember where ) it's used for Alzheimer treatment.

Also alcohol is not just a bad thing - like chocolate or loads of other things, it's how you deal with it
I grew up in Austria - where alcohol never was such a big thing for youngster as I see it here in the UK - even when I was little at special occasions my mum would pour me a very small amount - I felt great - had a sip, did not like it and continued with my lemonade - but it was never the forbidden and therefore so interesting thing

as we all know - cigarette addiction is bad - I purposely call is cigarette addiction and not nicotine addiction, cause if it was the nicotine we would all go up on the nicotine level - but what do we do - we all go down - so part of this vaccine , would not be very useful anyhow

just a few rambling thoughts on a relaxing Saturday evening

[striker42]

You know me better than most gill2009
Far from a few ramblings Clivia, more your valued opinion. It's good to post your opinion without fear of ridicule.

[monty]

Nicotine vaccination yes, alcohol undecided. Russia is reportedly going to ban cigarette sales to anyone born after a certain date (I've read various dates) so that in 70 years only a few ancients will be smoking.

Alcohol addiction can take different forms. For example the alcoholic who starts in the morning and drinks all day - there are people who can do this and hold down a job. Completely different is the alcoholic who goes all week without a drink and then goes on a bender from 5pm friday, loosing, like Striker, several days of their life, and do this again and again. Some people can drink more than a bottle of whisky a day and never seem drunk, some can wreck their lives on a good deal less than 7 bottles of whisky a week.

[lobeydosser]

If the SNP stay in power then by 2030 the only place you will be able to smoke (and I suppose Vape) will be within the confines of your own home. At least that is a proposal in their Manifesto.

[Deleted]

Would love a pill or injection that removed alcohol from your blood stream (could do with one now ), out on the town with friends drinking and work the next day - pop a pill/needle and you wake up fine I'm aware of the damage alcohol can do to friends and family but it's an adult decision and would resent my parents taking away the pleasure of responsible drinking.
Nicotine I have a dilemma since I am addicted but now take in a far less harmful and definitely more pleasurable way than smoking.
Let adults decide and like religion not force our decisions on a child's life. imho