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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 5, 2012 18:25:21 GMT
I wont be buying that particular vanilla flavouring then !! As a foodstuff it is most likely classed as safe, so no need for warnings.... We are using it for a different purpose, not its intended use, so, all we can do is take head of industry warnings and such like, until sufficient research has been carried out! It may be very safe, it may not..... It is down to each of us at the end of the day, to decide what to... or what not to use in our vape pursuit. We are the lab rats!
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 5, 2012 17:37:57 GMT
Just so people know what is being discussed above, and to inform users of flavourings, or even pre made e-juice. Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl, Pentanedione and Acetoin are in a family of chemicals called diketones, these are associated with popcorn lung.
They are substances that MAY be found in some flavourings (usually buttery or popcorn type flavours).
It is strongly advised that you do not use flavorings that contain or can produce the above.
If you want to know more I suggest that a search of the internet will supply a lot of information, but in brief, I have tried to summerise it below.
Diacetyl Diacetyl is a chemical that was found to be a prominent volatile constituent in butter flavoring and air at the microwave popcorn plant initially investigated by NIOSH. Diacetyl is also known as the alpha-diketone, 2,3-butanedione, or by its Chemical Abstracts Service (CAS) number, 431-03-08. Workers in microwave popcorn manufacturing are exposed to many materials besides diacetyl. Thus, NIOSH's initial studies in a total of 6 microwave popcorn plants were not able to definitely determine if diacetyl exposure contributed to lung disease or was a marker for other hazardous substances that contributed to disease. Still, NIOSH studies in the initial plant documented a relationship between cumulative exposure to diacetyl vapor over time and having abnormal lung function as measured by a test of lung function called spirometry. Also, higher cumulative exposure to diacetyl in this plant was associated with having a lower level of forced expiratory volume in 1 second (FEV 1), an important measure of lung function. Across all six microwave popcorn plants studied by NIOSH, working as a mixer of butter flavorings and heated soybean oil was associated with higher exposure to diacetyl vapor than working in other areas of the plants. People who had ever worked as mixers had more chest symptoms and poorer lung function as measured by lower FEV 1 than people who had never worked as mixers. People who had worked as mixers for more than 12 months had more shortness of breath with exertion and lower FEV 1 than people who had worked as mixers for less than 12 months. Subsequent studies have helped to clarify the role of diacetyl. Toxicology studies have shown that vapors from heated butter flavorings can cause damage to airways in animals (Hubbs et al, 2002). Studies in both rats and mice demonstrate that the cells lining airways can be damaged by inhaling diacetyl vapors as a single agent exposure in both acute and subchronic studies (Hubbs et al, 2008; Morgan et al, 2008). In mice, aspiration of diacetyl alone caused a pattern of injury that replicates some of the features of human obliterative bronchiolitis (Morgan et al, 2008). These findings support the hypothesis that diacetyl vapors are an inhalation hazard in the workplace. Also, a study from the Netherlands shows that chemical workers in a plant that manufactured diacetyl developed the same type of lung disease as microwave popcorn workers (van Rooy et al, 2007 and 2009). These chemical workers had less complicated exposures than microwave popcorn workers. Overall, current evidence points to diacetyl as one agent that can cause flavorings-related lung disease. Other flavoring ingredients may also play a role.
Acetyl Propionyl Acetyl Propionyl is very similar to Diacetyl is another chemical that was found to be a prominent volatile constituent in butter flavoring and sometimes used in addition or as a substitute for Diacetyl. It should be treated with the same concern.
Pentanedione The alpha-diketone, 2,3-pentanedione, has received attention as a flavoring substitute for diacetyl. It is also known as acetyl propionyl or by CAS number 600-14-6. It is structurally very similar to diacetyl since 2,3-pentanedione is a 5-carbon alpha-diketone and diacetyl is a 4-carbon alpha-diketone. Published reports on the toxicity of 2,3-pentanedione were first published in abstract form in 2010 (Hubbset al. 2010b; Morgan et al. 2010). A recent NIOSH peer-reviewed publication documents that acute inhalation exposures to 2,3-pentanedione cause airway epithelial damage that is similar to diacetyl in laboratory studies (Hubbset al. 2012). In 2-week inhalation studies in rats, NIEHS researchers found that 2,3-pentanedione caused proliferation of fibrous connective tissue in the walls of airways and projections of fibrous connective tissue sometimes extended into the air passageways (Morganet al. 2012b). Preliminary data suggest that repeated exposures to either 2,3-pentanedione or diacetyl can cause airway fibrosis in rats (Morganet al. 2012a). In the acute inhalation study of 2,3-pentanedione, changes in gene expression were noted in the brain (Hubbset al. 2012). Preliminary data suggests that diacetyl can cause changes in the central nervous system that are similar to those caused by 2,3-pentanedione (Hubbset al. 2010a). As a group, these publications raise concerns that the toxicologic effects of diacetyl may be shared with alpha-diketones which are close structural analogs. Additional alpha-diketones of interest include, but are not limited to, those used in food manufacturing such as 2,3-hexanedione and 2,3-heptanedione (Dayet al. 2011).
Acetoin Acetoin, along with diacetyl, is one of the compounds giving butter its characteristic flavor. Because of this, manufacturers of partially hydrogenated oils typically add acetoin and diacetyl (along with beta carotene for the yellow color) to the final product, which would otherwise be tasteless. Acetoin is used as a food flavoring (in baked goods) and a fragrance. It can be found in apples, butter, yogurt, asparagus, black currants, blackberry, wheat, broccoli, brussel sprouts, cantaloupe.
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 5, 2012 10:34:22 GMT
Hi Kickit,
Well you know what flavours you like (at present), us recommending something for you that you will like within the flavour restraints you have stated is therefore very difficult.
But I guarantee that once you start experimenting you will find you like stuff that you would never have thought of in a 100 years, but to do that, you need to take a chance. That is what mixing is all about, for me anyway. There is no gain without risk (experimentation)...
However, I would say a few items that you will always find a use for are Ethyl Maltol, for use as a sweetener, Maybe some Menthol crystals to compliment the Peppermint, Chocolate, always goes well with Peppermint, and maybe a Banana to go with your Custard.
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 5, 2012 10:13:34 GMT
FlavourArt – Dark Vapure
Another strong and realistic tobacco flavour. Rich, Creamy, Dark, Earthy, are all words I would use to describe this tobacco flavour.
Again I find this is a good base mixer, to build on, I don’t care for it as a stand alone. Only small quantities are required, so it can be pre-diluted to a 20% reduction in PG and then added to a mix to keep more control over the exact %ages used.
I suggest equal amounts mixed with another tobacco (such as FlavourArt Perique Black) to give a strong realistic tobacco flavour. Also good as a base tobacco for some fruits.
2% to 4% is about right as it is a strong flavour. Requires a longer steeping time to develop, I suggest at least a week, maybe two, depending on the other flavours.
Rated 9/10
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 5, 2012 10:05:31 GMT
FlavourArt – Perique Black
A strong and realistic tobacco flavour. This is a very good product, but requires careful mixing with the right flavours to get the best from it. Only small quantities are required, so it can be pre-diluted to a 20% reduction in PG and then added to a mix to keep more control over the exact %ages used.
I suggest equal amounts mixed with another tobacco (such as FlavourArt Dark Vapure) and to give a strong realistic tobacco flavour. Hint of ashtray aftertaste as you would expect from an absolute.
2% to 4% when mixed with another tobacco is about right as it is a strong flavour. Requires a longer steeping time to develop, I suggest at least a week, maybe two, depending on the other flavours.
Rated 9/10
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 5, 2012 9:38:05 GMT
The Perfumers Apprentice – Black Cherry
A reasonably good dark cherry flavour, has a little chemical aftertaste, but OK if mixed with tobaccos. But, it is strong… A flavour that can easily overpower anything you mix it with.
Very strong, only needs between 1% and 5% when added to other flavours, gives a strong lasting, cherry taste.
Requires a few days steeping to finalise and fix the flavour, taints syringes, needles and bottles with cherry flavour.
Rated 7/10
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 5, 2012 9:25:47 GMT
Cupcake World Intense Flavouring - Cream
A good cream, but not a flavour to use on it’s own.
Very strong, only needs between 1% and 3% when added to other flavours, gives that creamy taste to fruits, beverages, sweets, etc.
Requires a few days steeping to finalise and fix the flavour, so don’t expect it to taste right after 5 mins.
Rated 8/10
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 5, 2012 0:48:25 GMT
I use everything from 1ml to 100ml syringes and 14, 16, & 18 guage neddles (mostly the larger bore needles for VG, Nic, etc). I also use the larger syringes without needle and fill from the top for quantaties over 30ml, or it takes an age to suck the liquid up.
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 5, 2012 0:40:42 GMT
Cupcake World Intense Flavouring - Chocolate
A very good creamy chocolate, I use it a lot.
Used at between 10% – 20% with other flavours depending on their flavour strength. Works well with fruits. Not overly sweet or bitter, more of a creamy chocolate.
Other flavours can seem to dominate it at first, but becomes stronger and more chocolaty after 5 days steeping, so don't over do it on the first mix, or expect it to taste right after 5 mins.
Rated 9/10
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 5, 2012 0:28:56 GMT
FlavourArt - Blackberry
One of many Blackberry concentrates I have tried, this one has a good depth of flavour, reasonably realistic and mixes well with other flavours.
Can be used as a stand alone flavour but works best with other fruits, custards, creams, candies, etc.
It is not overly sweet and will stand some sweetening if required for the mix. Lingering aftertaste of Blackberries in the mouth.
Can dominate other more subtle flavours so about 5% seems right for most mixes.
Rated 8/10
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 5, 2012 0:00:13 GMT
Olfactik.Com - Ethyl Maltol
To all intents and purposes this is the same product sold by many retail vape shops, but I think the crystals are finer, almost a powder.
Supplied lose (in sealed bags), it conforms to industry standard, in other words, it is exactly the same chemical composition, make up, strength, etc.
Requires to be dissolved at about 10% crystals in 90% PG as a solution, then used (sparingly) in mixes to sweeten and give a “candy” flavour.
Essential tool in any mixers toolkit.
Rated 10/10
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 4, 2012 23:47:51 GMT
Cupcake World Intense Flavour - Strawberry
A very realistic strawberry, not over sweet, a natural as opposed to chemical flavour that a lot of strawberry concentrates have, you can almost taste the strawberry pips / seeds in it.
Blends well with other flavours especially chocolate, or with other fruits and creams, it can be sweetened easily without affecting overall flavour.
I mix at 10 -25%, depending on what other flavours are also in the mix and if I want it as the dominating flavour, or as part of a balanced fruit mix. As all mixes I allow 5 days to steep, this helps mellow and smooth the flavour and reduce any harshness.
Can be sweetened with Stevia or Ethyl Maltol without detracting from the flavour.
My overall score: 9/10
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 4, 2012 23:38:31 GMT
Cupcake World Intense Flavour - Lime
A good sour and tart Lime, works and blends well with other flavours such as chocolate, lemon, and other fruits. Has been reported as unfriendly to some polycarbonate tanks, so best used in metal or glass.
I mix at 10 -25%, depending on what other flavours are also in the mix and if I want it as the dominating flavour, or as a balanced fruit mix. Requires 5 days of steeping to blend and mellow into other flavours and reduce any harshness.
Can be sweetened with Stevia or Ethyl Maltol without detracting from the flavour.
My overall score: 8/10
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 4, 2012 16:48:37 GMT
Another new Flavour added to the store..... To compliment our range of retro sweet type flavours.
Aunty Flo’s Pear Drops, another treat for serious sweetie lovers everywhere who enjoy strong, bold, retro, sweet shop style flavours.
Take a look.....
Enjoy!
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Post by Frogster (The Alchemist) on Nov 4, 2012 13:10:18 GMT
Hi Brian,
I will have a think about it..... but will have to wait till my next bottle order as I only have enough for my current demands, and only just put a re-order in.
Will come back to you in here to update you.
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