ECCA

[Ratfinkz]

Kickit, although your point is somewhat valid re what other ca's have we joined, how many forums are people on for items they own? E cigarettes are a new invention and therefore different to other products. There is a need for ECCA and I think people need to start being more supportive. Ok lots of people have been let down by them in the past, but maybe it's time to let bygones be bygones and do whatever we can to protect this joint hobby of ours?

All that said, ECCA need to become more proactive and more member friendly or there is no point in joining.

[kickit]

I guess so much depends on how an individual regards vaping. When I smoked cigarettes, I didn't regard it as a hobby, nor did I join forums to discuss the relative merits of Marlboro Reds versus Dunhill International with like-minded people.

When I'm buying a new fridge or a computer, I often spend quite a while on the internet looking for information. That includes forums.

Some people consider vaping as a hobby, some consider it as a means to an end.

Some people feel passionately about a subject, some people don't.


What I'm trying to do is show you - with my "somewhat valid" points - that there are always going to be only a minority of people who will get involved.

We can only imagine how many people are vapers but never use a forum of any kind. We can only imagine how many people are here because they enjoy the company and interaction of a forum and because that's just as important to them (maybe even more so) than vaping.

What I can't seem to see anywhere is a strong cohort of organised people coming together with one voice and saying "this is us, here's what we do, here's what we need, get involved!" No, what I've seen to date is a couple of lone voices asking if anyone's interested and almost apologising for bringing the subject up in the first place. To be honest, if these voices represent the strong, united voice of vaping which is going to present the case for consumers in the future, then frankly I'm not inspired. It seems like ECCA is a couple of well-meaning people who have written down a few ideas on the back of a fag packet (well, they've given up, so it wasn't going to be any use for anything else) and are now trying to drum up support. Last week, someone was suggesting that this should all be funded by the vendors - making it into a trade association rather than a consumer association (IMVHO) and this week it's another slightly apologetic call-to-arms which is falling on deaf ears.

Look, I don't have any reason to pick a fight, but I'd love it if someone with real passion leapt to the defence of ECCA and ripped me a new one in the process. As a relative newcomer to vaping, what I'm seeing seems like the equivalent of those people who stand at the station rattling a tin because they feel they should, but looking very embarrassed and definitely too afraid to actually accost anyone and ask them for a donation.

C'mon, prove me wrong. Please.

[giles]

Nov 29, 2012 11:29:02 GMT kickit said:

I don't want to say this for any other reason other than to be devil's advocate, but hands up how many of us have ever joined a consumers' association for any other product we buy or use?

Just one - unless you count Which? - CAMRA - campaign for real ale in case anyone didn't know, which was also about the only one that has worked so far (you wouldn't believe the p*ss which was about the only "bitter" available in most pubs in the late 60's early 70's)

ECCA is obviously pretty useless. Trouble is, that the only other relevant organisation is the e-cig trade organisation, which is also useless (try signing their petition at www.petitiononline.com/fr33dom/petition.html ), and arguably compromised.

I think the nearest thing we have to consumers associations right now are the forums. This is not good because people planning legislation do, believe it or not, like to consult those affected by it, and the forums don't give them that.

So if someone can think of a way of making ECCA work that would be good.

Occasional posts saying "please give us your support" just don't cut it.

I think ECCA needs to provide some service to its members, so that people not only join up, they stay connected. Any other ideas would be welcome.

[lazydog]

Kickit sorry if I came across in the way you suggest that wasn't my intention I was trying to find out people views good and bad and also bring ECCA to peoples attention who haven't heard of them.
Where I go from here with this is undecided yet.
It would be good if a rep of ECCA would post here with confirmation of times and dates of the next meetings

[itsmeitis]

Your best bet is getting in touch with Sam Munroe or Chris Price (Rolygate) via the website....http://www.eccauk.org/

Or the ECCA group page on Facebook. They are on the Facebook page quite a bit... www.facebook.com/groups/eccauk/?ref=ts&fref=ts

[lazydog]

Cheers buddy I have done that after it was suggested by Fiona

[lazydog]

Okay I have let this run for a couple of days,and none of the ECCA reps or committee have bothered to join in the founder members of ECCA are heard to say real life and lack of support is the reason for lack of interest in ECCA.But they do use FB often enough so if they cant be bothered nor can I.

[Blownupdolly]

Nov 30, 2012 13:06:21 GMT lazydog said:

Okay I have let this run for a couple of days,and none of the ECCA reps or committee have bothered to join in the founder members of ECCA are heard to say real life and lack of support is the reason for lack of interest in ECCA.But they do use FB often enough so if they cant be bothered nor can I.

I went to their forum last night. It is virtually dead and inactive, although there were quite a few members who posted a hello and suchlike, but no input from the commitee it appears, so i guess that means there is interest from some people but no input from those who should be welcoming them and getting the ball rolling.

I also thought afterwards that people really don't have a clue what their aims and goals are. You just get the feeling you are joining something pointless

[kickit]

I very much get the impression that someone said, at some stage: "We need a consumers' association to ensure our voice is heard" and a few people said "Yes, right, great idea" but no-one actually canvassed any opinions about this perceived "need". It now seems like a few people talking to each other on Facebook as if they are going to take on the world, and they haven't really noticed they're talking to themselves. Which, incidentally, they're so busy doing that they've lost any kind of support or following they might previously have built up.
I noted on FB that they asked about a month ago for views about their "web presence"... It appears they've had no more than 5 or 6 replies.It's been "seen" by 35 people... I wonder why.

[rolygate]

Quick update on ECCA.

It was formed because various people believed that the general public should have a voice, as well as the trade, the government, and rival commercial interests such as the tobacco industry and the pharmaceutical industry. At that time, what the consumers wanted was being buried by attacks funded by commercial rivals.

There are various functions that a consumer association can perform, such as:

- Providing a centralised point where the rest of the world can see that the general public are organised sufficiently to be able to present their point of view

- Providing correct information instead of the myth and propaganda that otherwise prevails and is taken as the truth

- Presenting the public's view to government

- Representing the purchaser to the trade, and working on the consumer's behalf if/when issues arise


All those reasons still exist, various people have opinions as to which is the most important or if they are all of equal importance. There are very few activists who are prepared to work for vaping, some are at ECCA, some contribute to webTV channels, some blog, and so on. Everyone has a different opinion on what works best, which is probably a good thing. What everyone does agree on though is that there aren't enough of us.

Currently ECCA is very quiet because there are so few of us. There will be an AGM in January, the date being discussed but not yet confirmed is Wednesday January 16th 8pm. If people are interested in taking the consumer voice forward then they are most welcome to join the committee either as an elected member or simply as a member of a project group to take on a specific task. You yourself can define that task and how you want to address it. However, people need to understand that *if something needs to be done then they MUST do it themselves* - we can provide a framework for you to do so in an 'official' capacity but have zero capacity to take on new projects ourselves. We can help as much as possible with guidance and advice but above all ECCA needs self-starters who will do things instead of complaining they are not being done.

What ECCA currently does is the most that can possibly be achieved by a very small number of people with very limited time and no money: provide a web presence. Yes, there are a million things that could and should be done if we had the people and/or the money.

What we have achieved so far is remarkable for the amount of money invested (virtually zero) or people involved (hardly any):

- We have established the premier web consumer voice in the world for e-cigarette users. And before you say "That's CASAA" you need to recognise that CASAA is split between all forms of smoking alternatives, doesn't offer any concrete opinions on why there is resistance to ecigs and who is behind it, and doesn't offer any stats on ecig use. For this reason it is ECCA who the world's media and market researchers ask for actual data and for commercially-independent views on ecig use.

- We punch far above our weight in terms of visibility and influence. In real terms we should be totally ignored, in actuality there are many big players who watch the ECCA site because it prints the truth and we can't be ignored.

- We have established the foundation for concerned vapers to get together to act, on whatever they want to act on. ECCA won't be going away and it won't be turning into a trade group or an apologist for regulations, or anything else. If you want to use it, it's there for you to use. You can write a blog piece, or alternatively you can organise a campaign to contact all the UK's MEPs and tell them what vapers think about EU regulations to restrict e-cigarettes. It's up to you.

Everyone at ECCA welcomes your support. We especially welcome your help, as against criticism, because we personally can't do more: you need to weigh in and help out. There are many positive signs now as more people switch to vaping, and as more vapers realise that things need to be done. It might be a good idea to hold an open meeting (web based) where we can seat 30 or 40 people and see if a task group can be established to get together and address whatever issues are seen as important. Please contact Sam Munro or Fiona at ECR if you would like to contribute in some way and if you agree that a meeting should be organised soon. If there is support for this, we will set a date. You can post on the ECCA Facebook page or send a message to Sam or Fiona through Facebook:
www.facebook.com/groups/eccauk/
- or at the ECR chatroom:
e-cig-reviews.com/forum/chat.php

What I would like you to take away from this is that ECCA is there for you. However, and being realistic about it, nothing can be done unless you personally step up to the plate. ECCA isn't going away anytime soon; but equally, we aren't going to get much done unless people step up. Please recognise that ECCA won't actually exist in reality until it has a working body of people doing things. Until then, essentially it's just a good idea and a website with occasional updates.


Personal stuff
I have been off work ill for some time now but am hoping to get back to work next week, deal with ECCA business, etc. My apologies if I have been slow responding to issues recently.

[Chrissie]

Hello & welcome to AAE-C, Roly Sorry to hear you have been ill

[lazydog]

Thankyou Roly for posting in this thread sorry you have been ill buddy but the forum reps could of responded :-[
As for is there is a need for ECCA from that is a big yes.

[Jemima]

Dec 2, 2012 16:44:20 GMT lazydog said:

Thankyou Roly for posting in this thread sorry you have been ill buddy but the forum reps could of responded :-[
As for is there is a need for ECCA from that is a big yes.

Hope your on the mend now Roly

Sorry I haven't reponded sooner to this thread, as the forum ECCA rep I should of been here to offer answers to questions raised.

It may look like nothing is happening but often things are going on in the background, like the recent radio interviewees request. ECCA has been pritty quiet for the last few months but hopefully with the meeting after xmas things will pick up again soon.

You can always contact me via pm or post in the ECCA section if there is anything I can help with

[rolygate]

Just a quick update.

I've lost the last 3 months into a black hole due to illness, but am gradually making a comeback. Right now I've got 'chemo-brain' if you know what that is about...

Here is what I have been doing:
1. Political pressure via the web.

It doesn't sound much but it does have an effect. As far as effect vs funding or effect vs real number of people doing stuff, it's unbeatable. Google for 'e-cigarette consumer association' (google #1 out of 4 million results), 'how the eu kills thousands' (google #1 out of 6 million pages), 'tobacco harm reduction uk' (#3 behind NICE), 'employers and e-cigarettes' (#1 out of 5 million), 'nhs quit smoking massive fail' (#1), etc, etc.

ECCA has a lot of web power because we know how to use it. If someone wants to use that power for an ecig project then you have a home with power you can leverage. You just have to ask.

Somebody has to use the web to influence the people making the decisions, and that's what we do. It does work and it works better than you can imagine.

2. I do handle the correspondence carefully. Anything to secretary @ecca or info @ecca gets read and replied to. The world's media come to us for opinion and data, and I'm not exaggerating; it's because of the web power. Also all sorts of market researchers whose work ends up assisting us.

3. Currently I'm working to help set up the EU consumer association. It is our best shot to organise a central resistance to the new EU TPD. Good progress is being made and the different countries are now talking. An agreed policy is being developed. The website goes online soon, then we will have more ways to drive our views forward.

Apparently no one in the UK wants to get moving on an organised campaign to influence MEPs and MPs, so I am pinning my hopes on the EU association.

4. I am getting back into the swing of things by writing ECCA pages and blog posts, it's the way I use to clear out the mental fog.

Basically, I'm doing all I can, and I can't do any more just now. Please don't criticise. If you think something needs doing then please suggest how you can achieve that aim, we will help as much as we can. As has been said, there are just a few of us and we do what we can. Any more needs to be done by others, they can go it alone or use our framework.

5. We have contributed to efforts that assist our aims, such as at NICE and so on. We do what we can.

Sam M gets out and about on the forums and FB etc, please help him if you can.

There is a desperate need for people who will actually step up, take on a project, and run with it. Examples:
(1) List all UK MEPs on the ECCA private forum -- help people contact them -- get the vapers' point of view across.
(2) Produce info flyers for vendors to include with orders -- print them -- get them to the vendors.
(3) Produce info flyers for UK doctors and health centres -- print them -- get them out.
(4) Contact local radio and TV, and tell them you can speak about e-cigarette topics.

Please try to help if you can. You can do these things inside or outside of ECCA. If you want to use the ECCA website then it's there for you.

Sam and I are doing what we can, and believe me, ECCA is not going away. Right now all we can basically do, with the help we are getting, is provide you with a platform to get a Google #1 place for whatever you need. It may not be much but it's better than nothing. Anything more comes from YOU.

[Jemima]

Feb 8, 2013 1:20:22 GMT rolygate said:

Apparently no one in the UK wants to get moving on an organised campaign to influence MEPs and MPs, so I am pinning my hopes on the EU association.

Hi Roly it's good to hear from you

The members of AAE-C have been doing a fantastic job writing to MP's and MEP's, lots and lots of threads about responses received and replies given. A few have also had face to face meetings with their local representatives.    The EU association sounds like a good idea and will hopefully bring even more attention to the situation, so very good luck with that  



Apart from keeping the pressure on by writing etc I'm not sure I would know what to do next, any tips ?