More bureaucracy wanted

[giles]

Dec 16, 2012 12:46:47 GMT lobeydosser said:

I am now very wary about who I buy e-juice from and I only buy it directly from respected vendors.

The reason I'd like to see this stuff controlled by legislation is that I don't see how even reasonably experienced users know who is respected and who isn't. Also, there is a cost to making sure your products are safe, well labelled etc., and the companies that do it shouldn't be put at a competitive advantage compared to those who don't.

[lobeydosser]

There is a whole lot of legislation that could be brought in, but the people who are going to be bringing in this legislation are not Vapers.
Also some, if not the majority, are going to be pressurised by those that are very much against the vaping community and are much more interested in what is in their pockets than the safety of the minority that choose to vape instead of smoke their tobacco.

Unfortunately we either have a situation where there is virtually no legislation and you pays your money and takes your chances, or we are overpowered by ill conceived legislation thought up by bureaucratic numpties that wouldn't know an e-cig if they sat on it.

[lobeydosser]

Whilst I have no wish to be the harbinger of doom and gloom, I do think that anyone who is seriously considering that their future lies with Vaping rather than returning to ciggies, would be prudent to lay in a stock of their favourite equipment and e-juices to tide themselves over until good sense can prevail upon those who will be determining the future of Vaping in the UK.

Unless there is another "consultation period" next Spring, I can see us all beavering away with rebuildables and pipettes by this time next year.

[Clutter]

Giles, I'm actually more concerned that inappropriate & onerous legislation will kill off the businesses of respected, responsible & tried & tested vendors who have voluntarily adhered to guidelines, thereby leaving the market open to dodgy opportunists who will fake up labels & documents to appear EC compliant.

I've spent years poisoning myself with tobacco, alcohol & occasionally 'recreational' drugs. I've purchased all of these things from characters who may have tampered with and adulterated them. The only time I've had bad reactions has been to prescription drugs which are supposedly strictly regulated, but, are in fact, widely counterfeited.

Pharmacies & medicines are strictly regulated but BBC undercover reporter was able to buy over the counter from 7 central London pharmacies Amoxicillin 500mg, Valium, Temazepam & Oromorph (morphine).

There have been mass poisonings & deaths in recent years caused by anti-freeze added to olive oil in Spain, aluminium bulking out BABY FORMULA in China & adulterated spirits in Czech Republic earlier this year. The Czech government cleared the shelves of all spirits for several weeks until they were able to trace the source of the contaminated spirits (Vodka) & the distribution gang.

The regulations to ensure safety, quality, authenticity of provenance etc didn't protect the people who consumed those products because genuine labels were stolen & slapped on or faked up.

So, I'm not convinced that more bureaucracy or legislation willi protect consumers being poisoned but I trust the vendors I use to source their supplies responsibly & carry out their own checks & QC because they want my continued custom & killing off your customer base aint good business:)


Edited speeling error

[djs]

I saw the news about the over the counter POMs and I find it no surprise.
It's rare not to find folk bending rules and risking other people's health to sell stuff and make money. The whole e-cig/vaping industry is only in it's early days. Where it ends up, who knows? Best to take care and listen to one another, discuss, discover, uncover, review, recommend. That's the point of all this.

I just hope we/us/I don't find a massive brick placed in our way by the banning of nicotine liquids. Some people want that, and want it badly. The more converted smokers and the wider the public acceptance, the better chance we all stand.

[dizzi]

I'm already assuming I won't be able to buy the liquids I want, in the flavours I want, in the strengths I want and from the vendor I want at some point in the near-ish future. With that in mind I'll be stocking up on 54mg nic base. The rest (PG, VG, flavouring) won't be regulated in the same way and I can cobble together PVs if ego batteries etc are also regulated. So my January buying is going to be 510 connectors, ego connectors & electronics, nic base and large bottles of my favourite juices to store in the freezer. If the zombie apocalypse (better known as over-regulation) doesn't happen after all, I'll still be making use of these stocks. And if it does, well I'll be ok for a few years at least.

What really breaks my heart is the thought of our lovely vendors going under because of e-liquid regulations. I'm also not happy about BAT buying out Intellicig as I think it's the first step on Big Tobacco's road to restrict what is available, how well it works and how it tastes. I can't see BT listening to its customers the way Vape Escape does, for example. And once their e-cig is marketed, with all the advertising budget BAT has available, as a smoking cessation device (which will almost certainly be designed to be not quite good enough to help the average smoker quit), the vaping world as we know it will start to disappear.

[giles]

Dec 18, 2012 0:20:50 GMT Clutter said:

Giles, I'm actually more concerned that inappropriate & onerous legislation will kill off the businesses of respected, responsible & tried & tested vendors

Yes clutter - I'm trying to do my little bit to make it appropriate and no more onerous than it needs to be.

Responsible vendors are already under threat from vendors who don't care about anything but a quick profit, and at the moment they (and we) can't do anything about it. With suitable legislation we could just shop them to the authorities.

Dec 19, 2012 0:16:02 GMT djs said:

I just hope we/us/I don't find a massive brick placed in our way by the banning of nicotine liquids.

DJ I think that good regulation reduces the chance of that happening. For instance, one of the grounds the FDA stated for banning ecigs was diacetyl in some juices.

Dec 19, 2012 13:32:31 GMT dizzi said:

I'll be stocking up on 54mg nic base.

I'm not as pessimistic as you dizzi, but I'm still stocked up - but I got 75mg from the US (NicVape were the best at the time) - cheaper and less space taken up in the freezer.

[lobeydosser]

<<< I'm not as pessimistic as you dizzi, but I'm still stocked up - but I got 75mg from the US (NicVape were the best at the time) - cheaper and less space taken up in the freezer. >>>

Me too.
I reckon on cutting the 75mg three times and this would give me a years supply once mixed with the other ingrediants.
Yet I am surprised that so few members actually appear to be laying in stock for any future problems with legislation.
Perhaps they are all doing it secretly!

As none of us know just what is about to happen, perhaps now is the time to discuss steps we can take in case the worst does take place and just how much and what we should be stashing away for the future.