old holburn flavouring

[andylec]

hi
I am trying to find a old holburn flavouring to mix my own, does anyone know of one or what flavours are mixed to produce it
thanks
Andy

[chrisde]

Hi Andy - are you talking about an e-juice you bought somewhere and try to reproduce? If so, where did you buy it?
Or are you trying to mimic the taste of the smoldered tobacco? Because that won't work, unfortunately.

In my experience there are two very different types of tobacco juices: The type that is made by steeping real tobacco (Alchemists tobacco juices, House of Liquids El Toro) and the type that uses artificial flavouring for an "ashtray" type of taste (anything else, really).

The "real tobacco" juices have a greenish, fresh taste and smell a bit like fresh hay.
The artificial types are very different, often a bit peppery or even salty, some are sweet, some not-so-sweet, but none taste like a specific cigarette or tobacco.

I do use a recipe for my own base tobacco liquid, which contains low concentrations of FlavourArt Latakia (0,5%), RY4 (1%) and Royal (1-2%) and that I like as an all day vape. But you can't really compare it to the real thing.

[andylec]

thanks very much chrisde you explained something id been puzzling over for a while on the smell of hay id been getting on my own made virginia
i have 2 of the flavours for your mix will order some Latakia and try it. what pg/vg ratio do you use?

[chrisde]

I use mostly VG - only the flavouring itself is PG.

You will need something to round out your liquid. I use vanilla, but walnut or hazelnut work, too. Even banana isn't half bad.

The tobacco mixes need at least a few days steeping, two weeks is better.

Good luck!

[giles]

I'd like a flavour to match OK Smokey's DF Old Holborn, which to my taste buds is very similar to the real thing. (I've heard the same said about Grizwalds). I don't know where that fits in your real/artificial description chrisde.

I don't vape enough of it to make it worth developing myself.

[mybad]

I have been thinking about this one, the mention of green taste or hay might be due to the leaves being used have not matured long enough to use, even though they might look like they are, the reason I say this is because I had a go at growing my own tobacco 2yr ago , at first the leaves I left to mature looked nice and brown, I was so eager to try them out I found that they tasted exactly as mentioned green and strawy, it is only now after 2yr the leaves do smell as they should do tobacco, I have not tried to smoke any of them but no doubt the smoke from them would be great.


Mybad.

[Frogster (The Alchemist)]

The “Green Hey Taste” is the real taste of the tobacco, even after maturing for up to 4 years, it will still have this predominant taste. Tobacco companies add about 4000 other things, chemicals, toxins, poisons and such like to make a cigarette taste like it does.

If you were to smoke the tobacco leaf in its pure “un-treated and un-processed” form (no chemicals etc added) it would most likely still have that Green Hey taste and aroma. We have been programmed over years of smoking into thinking that the flavour and aroma we experience from smoking a cigarette is the taste of tobacco, in truth, that is only a %age of what we tasted, the rest was the cocktail of chemicals.

Tobacco extracts by themselves need (as chrisde says) mellowing or rounding out, stevia, Ethyl Maltol, can do this if you just want tobacco flavour, but they really shine when you add some subtle flavourings as well, and they do take time to mature.

[chrisde]

The "real smoldered tobacco" taste is what you can find in good, home made cigars like our fathers made themselves in the bad old days of war (Yes, I am that old). They have the "green hay smell" when you smell the unlit cigar, but they do not predominantly taste thus when smoked.

Big tobacco uses a lot of chemicals, but the quote of "thousands of chemicals" is misleading. They may have dozens in a particular brand, of course, but the "thousands" of chemicals are found in the _smoke_, not the tobacco itself. They are the result of smoldering (=oxidizing, de-naturing and cracking - I am not sure these are the correct English termini, sorry) the leaves. That happens at high temperatures that we can not achieve with our devices and that we do not want, for obvious reasons.

Many people have tried rebuilding the taste of tobacco smoke for a long time, F'arts even used gas chromatography and complex chemical methods, but it never worked out perfectly.

The "ultimate" series from F'arts are direct results of duplicating the smoke via chemical engineering. In my view, they are the best that are available at this time, but they still don't come close, because they fokus on the predominant flavours (the peaks on the GC) and leave out the more subtle ones. So, they are not complete, but rather "in your face" and simple.

Latakia (which is, interestingly enough, not an "ultimate") for an example condenses the "strong", "black", really awful taste a black cigarillo has. That is the taste that lacks in the mellower "Royal" and "Tuscan ultimate", which focus on the "cigarette with a hint of vanilla and fruit or nut" taste of modern cigarettes.

So I found that mixing the different flavourings on the market can recreate the complex tobacco smoke taste better than a single one.

But I also found that I moved away from the desire of having a "real tobacco" taste. Vaping is more than a simple replacement. It is a completely new way of tasting flavours, much like mixing cocktails or cooking. And I love my Capella Vanilla Custard better than I like my T2 tobacco smoke wannabe liquid =)

All of the above is just my experience and might be completely wrong, of course =)

[andylec]

some really interesting points and information from all the above posters,glad i started this thread , its enlightened me and given me some ideas
thanks to all