ECITA in Brussels - news, updates and the latest gossip...

[kirrielad]

Well after listening to all that, I just hope the EU commission where listening aswell! A lot of sense talked and if I ever meet the Greek doctor ill b sure to buy him a pint or 10!

[sooetie]

Greek Doctor rules OK !

[ant]

The Doctor...
Google+ this guy, started following him last week and want him to join us

Konstantinos Farsalinos
13 Mar 2013 - Public
On Tuesday March 19, i will present my research data in a hearing of the European Parliament Committee for Environment, Public Health and Food Safety, held in Brussels-Belgium. This presentation is about the issue of nicotine content in electronic cigarettes, that is addressed in the new Tobbacco Directive proposal. My goal will be to show them that their proposal is a huge mistake and will significantly reduce the beneficial effects of electronic cigarettesion smokers.


He does need funding and it would be nice if we could help, please look at his results

[sooetie]

He was great

We need people like that in the UK

[sooetie]

Was it just me or did ECITA's 2nd speaker make a mess of it?

Katherine you did well

[Ratfinkz]

I thought both Ecita reps did us proud!

The doctor was fab, just the kind of person we need on our side!!

[padiho]

Beautifully put Katharine, articulate,confident and point got across in three short minutes...thank you.

[vereybowring]

Well done Katherine.

I note the panel were not fully listening to what the representatives were saying and asked questions so that a repeat of some information was necessary. If these evidence gatherers can't be bothered to fully pay attention then what chance their reports will be complete.

I also notice the chairwoman seemed to be referring to results from that rubbished FDA report yet again. It seems people in bureaucracy really have trouble getting new information.
To the independent doctor (and highly regarded expert) they kept saying there are many doctors with many opinions, while this is true we also know they only seem to be listening to doctors who are funded by pharma rather than field leaders or independents.
EDIT: shocking also about the chair reprimanding people for having an expert along as the full meeting had already happened which is where such experts should have talked - shame they forgot to invite them to that meeting. If you were all supposed to be giving your side of the argument how were you supposed to do that fully if no experts were supposed to attend. This smacks heavily of our experts know better than anybody elses which is ridiculous when the top people in the world in harm reduction, drug use and various other medical fields seem to be on the side of e cigs. They have found "experts" who agree with their position and are annoyed field leaders are calling them on it. All in all the EU tried to stitch us up and are now angry they didn't get away with it.

[kibbster]

Mar 20, 2013 8:20:22 GMT vereybowring said:

Well done Katherine.

I note the panel were not fully listening to what the representatives were saying and asked questions so that a repeat of some information was necessary. If these evidence gatherers can't be bothered to fully pay attention then what chance their reports will be complete.

I also notice the chairwoman seemed to be referring to results from that rubbished FDA report yet again. It seems people in bureaucracy really have trouble getting new information.
To the independent doctor (and highly regarded expert) they kept saying there are many doctors with many opinions, while this is true we also know they only seem to be listening to doctors who are funded by pharma rather than field leaders or independents.
EDIT: shocking also about the chair reprimanding people for having an expert along as the full meeting had already happened which is where such experts should have talked - shame they forgot to invite them to that meeting. If you were all supposed to be giving your side of the argument how were you supposed to do that fully if no experts were supposed to attend. This smacks heavily of our experts know better than anybody elses which is ridiculous when the top people in the world in harm reduction, drug use and various other medical fields seem to be on the side of e cigs. They have found "experts" who agree with their position and are annoyed field leaders are calling them on it. All in all the EU tried to stitch us up and are now angry they didn't get away with it.

She did sound very angry and personal at points.
She really didn't like all these nasty people saying her beloved TPD and NRT is shit lol
I can only think she's taken personal ownership of this and as she backs it, it's now personal to push it through as unscathed as possible.

[doodlebug]

Hi, all,

I am so sorry not to have been able to get back to you all before now, but I have been having major problems getting online - incredibly frustrating!!!

I have (finally!) been able to download the audio, and am listening to it now. I agree with most of what everyone has said (and we had a few choice words for Charlie after the flavourings thing, I can tell you!) but I don't believe this fight is lost - not by a long way. We shall continue to correspond with Linda McAvan, and all the other MEPs, to emphasise the need to increase the level, and to further elucidate the ISE auditing programme, and how it can help to solve the perceived problems. I still believe (resolutely, even into our 4th year of doing this!) that sensible, proportionate decisions are possible, and that we can help them get this right.

We have some other meetings this week, and the consumers are having their meeting today (Wed), with at least the largest German consumer organisation attending. (They have already indicated that they are broadly putting forward the same message as us, so hopefully, there will be some alignment there.)

I also agree that it is very disappointing not to have better agreement across the industry reps. We have been doing what we do for a very long time, and it is enormously frustrating to have people coming in at the eleventh hour, apparently just to throw spanners in the works! Nonetheless, I still believe that our common sense approach, combined with the clearly delineated solution we are offering them, can win the day.

It's interesting to note that the one point on which all the industry reps agree is that these are not medicines. If nothing else, I am certain that the Parliament must have got that message!

Lots and lots more work to be done....

Happy vaping, one and all!

Cheers,

Katherine

[buckowski]

Just having a listen now, fascinating stuff.

Well done Katherine, great work!

[doodlebug]

Last night, we had a most enlightening dinner meeting with a Brussels insider (who will remain anonymous for now), who we will be working with to ensure we are able to get our message across effectively to the right people as this process continues to grind along. There is still an enormous amount of work to do, and we shall be doing everything we can to keep everybody vaping the way they want to - and yes, that includes flavourings!!!

Today there is another meeting, which is public, so hopefully there will be at least audio available. We shall be attending to listen in, and will give an update when we can.

One of the buzzwords surrounding this is 'harmonisation', i.e. where everything is harmonised for all the Member States. The fact that there is currently disparity about the levels in various countries (UK 7.5%, France 2%) is precisely why we are asking them to harmonise that bit - at 5%. The vast majority of the regulatory instruments which apply to ecigs as consumer products is already very well harmonised - far more so than medicines regulation, actually, so that's an easier sell.

I remain optimistic. Yes, there is an enormous amount of work ahead, but we shall continue to do it, and I still believe that common sense (and frankly, self-preservation for the EU) will win the day in the end, and that we can achieve an acceptable outcome for ecigs. I find inclusion in the TPD counter-intuitive, but as long as the level gets up to something we can all live with, then why not? At least it avoids the risk of a specific ecigs Directive for now. (Ultimately, I suppose, one might be needed, but we are too young as a sector at this stage.)

They have already recognised that reclassification as a tobacco product is not a viable option. Think about it: just as medicines reclassification would drag tobacco cigarettes in, kicking and screaming (which NOBODY wants to do anyway), reclassification as a tobacco product on the basis of the tenuous content of nicotine would drag NRT down that route.... Can you see anyone taking that idea seriously? They have already ruled that out, I believe - even at the Commission level, and we heard that from Parliament too.

Keep calm and carry on vaping, I reckon.

Cheers,

Katherine

[doodlebug]

Hi, all,

We managed to split up today and cover two Committee's meetings, discussing the TPD: Tom attended the ENVI one (linked here www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-liv...COMMITTEE-ENVI) while I trotted down two floors and sat in the IMCO (Internal Market) Committee meeting, which was discussing it at the same time. (I'm just catching up on the ENVI meeting at the moment, but will try to come back and add a link to the IMCO one and add it here.) ... and here it is: www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/en/committees/video?event=20130321-0900-COMMITTEE-IMCO

It is very interesting to see how the conversation is beginning to change. There is still a lot of work to do, but we have a much clearer idea of what we need to do, and how to go about it, so I am confident that we can continue to make good progress.

We also met with one of the MEPs this afternoon, and they are tabling an amendment to put forward our suggestion to raise the limit to 5% (50mg/ml).

And on it goes....

There is a huge political will to get the TPD through in this Parliament. We are taking the position that we want to help the Parliament achieve this, by suggesting an appropriate amendment to the level proposed for ecigs, which would result in a win-win for everyone. Yes, it is a compromise, but we believe it fixes it enough for everyone to remain well supplied with the products they want, as well as keeping the legitimate industry alive and well to supply us all.

As the week has progressed, we have seen a definite change in the tenor of the conversations - for the better. Even some of the hard-liners are beginning to recognise that the proposal cannot achieve the desired outcome, so I am optimistic.

We shall be returning to the UK tomorrow, and will be keeping the pressure on to get the necessary work done.

Cheers,

Katherine

[womble]

Sounds like you are doing a brilliant job out there. Wonderful stuff, thankyou from me.

[doodlebug]

Thanks, Womble. We're trying our best.