ECITA in Brussels - news, updates and the latest gossip...

[MarkS]

Nice one Katherine. I think you definitely made an impact as even Linda McAvan doesn't seem so sure of herself on the E-Cig proposal now.
I've only watched the ENVI meeting so far which was an arduous task due to the some of the translators, so I don't ENVI (oh I should work for The Sun with puns like that) Tom having to actually sit through it all in person.

I found the ENVI meeting quite positive in the sense that they nearly all agreed more or less when it came to the proposals regarding Tobacco, but there was some doubt creeping in and a divide when it came to e-cigs. The Chairman (Missed his name) even questioned it being included in the proposal at all and did not seem at all convinced even when the Commission said kids could be poisoned by the juice "they could also eat cigarette butts in the playground" was his response to that one. He was also the first to openly say tough regulation will play right into the hands of the Tobacco Companies and he thought the whole idea was to reduce Tobacco consumption, not enhance it. I liked him.

The Irish spokeswoman was the worst and she just fell short of labeling it the devils spawn, although maybe their stance has to do with the deal that Dr Reilly struck with big Pharma to supply Ireland with cheap drugs? Of course I wouldn't dare speculate on such a thing.

It does seem there is going to be some form of regulation, as they nearly all agreed on that point.

The biggest concern for me from the whole meeting had to do with Flavoured Tobacco. They all but one agreed that flavoured cigarettes should be banned and I think that may well cross over when any further debate about e-cigs and e-liquids ensues.

The fact Linda McAvan now believes that they need to look into electronic cigarettes further and even said they need to consult experts, there being a definite divide about the exact route to take and the Chairman outright questioning the inclusion of Electronic Cigarettes altogether are all positives.

You and ECITA have done a great job so far and so has everyone who has emailed the MP's and MEP's, but as you say there is still a way to go yet.
so for those who haven't emailed there MEP's/MP do so NOW!!! it is making a difference so if you haven't done it do it! By the time this effects you it will be too late to change and you'll end up wishing you had.

For those who have emailed there MEP's/MP do so again. Raise points from recent events with them, engage them if you can. If they don't reply, so what? At least they will be aware that this is an issue that needs careful and responsible consideration. My MEP's and MP have had several emails from me and I've only had replies from them on my first one. It's not deterred me though. I want them to know that I really do give a monkeys about this and I won't go away.

Right now to watch the IMCO meeting....I'm a sucker for punishment!

[doodlebug]

Mar 21, 2013 17:11:58 GMT MarkS said:

You and ECITA have done a great job so far and so has everyone who has emailed the MP's and MEP's, but as you say there is still a way to go yet.
so for those who haven't emailed there MEP's/MP do so NOW!!! it is making a difference so if you haven't done it do it! By the time this effects you it will be too late to change and you'll end up wishing you had.

For those who have emailed there MEP's/MP do so again. Raise points from recent events with them, engage them if you can. If they don't reply, so what? At least they will be aware that this is an issue that needs careful and responsible consideration. My MEP's and MP have had several emails from me and I've only had replies from them on my first one. It's not deterred me though. I want them to know that I really do give a monkeys about this and I won't go away.

Right now to watch the IMCO meeting....I'm a sucker for punishment!

Couldn't agree more! It is the vapers who are the stakeholders who really matter in this, and we can only go so far in fighting for that. Please, please keep the pressure on. If you can, don't just email, but send posted letters - these are FAR harder for them to ignore. Push them to have face-to-face meetings with you.

We are tabling amendments to propose that the limit be raised to 5% (50mg/ml) but leaving it in the TPD, since this is an easy win-win for what's on the table right now - and they are beginning to indicate that they might go for it. If that would do for you, then please support it; if not, just tell them what YOU want.

We must ensure that the CONSUMERS have a voice - this is about life and death for every one of us who vapes, after all.

Cheers,

Katherine

[Banky]

You're doing a brilliant job out there Katherine, Representing the e-cig community thank you from me too.

[GunJack]

Mar 21, 2013 20:31:03 GMT Banky said:

You're doing a brilliant job out there Katherine, Representing the e-cig community thank you from me too.

seconded, thirded, and fourthed, etc., etc., etc.

[kirrielad]

Mar 21, 2013 21:36:05 GMT GunJack said:

Mar 21, 2013 20:31:03 GMT Banky said:

You're doing a brilliant job out there Katherine, Representing the e-cig community thank you from me too.

seconded, thirded, and fourthed, etc., etc., etc.

+1

[kibbster]

It's starting to sound like the Eurocrats might be open to compromise - maybe they are starting to see sense!
The prices of pre-mixed liquids may go up slightly with having a lower concentration base but at least we'll still be able to vape how we want.
Some countries will be better off.
All in all if it makes them leave us alone it can only be a good thing.
At least now they can't say they didn't know about e-cigs - ignorance isn't an excuse anymore.

[GunJack]

Katherine, would the 50mg/ml apply to ready-made liquids only, or would that apply to nic concentrate for mixing your own ?? As most self-mixers use 54, 72 or 75 mg/ml concentrate, would that mean that nic base would only be available up to 50mg ?? (And therefore self-mixing becomes slightly more expensive)

edit - as pointed out above, that would also mean redy-mixed liquids being more expensive also

[doodlebug]

Possible a little, yes, but this is about finding a compromise position. We have tried to leave enough room for the DIYers, despite the fact that it does limit it slightly. (My brother's not exactly thrilled about it, since Decadent Vapours do 54mg base for mixing, but even he recognises the importance of the compromise.)

Again, though, if our proposal does not reflect what you want, tell them what you want. It really is that simple! You never know, they might allow it to go higher, and we certainly wouldn't talk them down from it!

Cheers,

Katherine

[GunJack]

Thanks Katherine It wasn't about not being happy with it, it was just trying to clarify the proposal..... if this is the compromise position, I think we could all do one hell of a lot worse.. at the end of the day, it'll still be way cheaper than ending up back on the fags

[vereybowring]

Katherine, today McAvan spouted something about a number of rapex reports using it as a safety concern.
If you go over to the VTTV forum I did a quick investigation which you might find interesting.

The quick look I had basically came down to labelling issues and dodgy battery chargers as I kind of thought it would so her concerns are not as big as she is making out since they aren't banning toys and they appear far more frequently in these reports.

[kibbster]

Mar 21, 2013 23:57:32 GMT vereybowring said:

Katherine, today McAvan spouted something about a number of rapex reports using it as a safety concern.
If you go over to the VTTV forum I did a quick investigation which you might find interesting.

The quick look I had basically came down to labelling issues and dodgy battery chargers as I kind of thought it would so her concerns are not as big as she is making out since they aren't banning toys and they appear far more frequently in these reports.

Why am I not surprised that she would use dodgy electrics to justify her removing our access to the liquids.
As for the labelling and nic level issues, I'm guessing that these reports have come up is evidence that the regulation we already have is working.

[doodlebug]

Mar 21, 2013 23:57:32 GMT vereybowring said:

Katherine, today McAvan spouted something about a number of rapex reports using it as a safety concern.
If you go over to the VTTV forum I did a quick investigation which you might find interesting.

The quick look I had basically came down to labelling issues and dodgy battery chargers as I kind of thought it would so her concerns are not as big as she is making out since they aren't banning toys and they appear far more frequently in these reports.

We've already made that point, although not directly to Linda McAvan. We plan to include something in the proposal to cover these (relatively insignificant, compared to the REAL risks!) safety concerns, and will reiterate the point. I agree completely that there are many, many consumer products which appear from time to time on the RAPEX system, and as Kibbster pointed out, this is indeed evidence of the existing regulations working. Clearly, there is enforcement happening from government regulators, but we shall continue to do our best to support their efforts in the various territories.

Cheers,

Katherine

[doodlebug]

Hi, all,

Sorry for the long delay in providing a further update, but as you can imagine, there has been a lot going on! We are continuing with the process of dealing with the European Parliament as they process the Commission’s proposed revisions to the Tobacco Products Directive. As promised, here is a (very!) rough guide to the timeline for the process. This is very likely to change, as at various stages, spanners are likely to be thrown into the works, but roughly, this is what will happen:

The ENVI Committee has held a debate on the Tobacco Products Directive, by means of the public meetings which we have all been following. The ENVI Committee, led by Linda McAvan (the Rapporteur), are putting together their report. ENVI will be working together to get something which they can get agreement on from their colleagues when the ENVI committee vote is held.

When the report is completed, the ENVI committee will hold its vote. Other committees, such as IMCO (Internal Markets and Consumer Protection), JURI (Legal Affairs) and AGRI, etc., will offer an opinion in their areas of competence – for instance JURI will look at any legal problems the Directive could face, and IMCO will look at any implications on the free movement of goods and services

The deadline for amendments is on 6 May 2013, so it is imperative that you make your voices heard now so that MEPs understand that our community is watching what they do with great concern. (See below.)

Eventually, after a report is adopted by the Committee, there will be a first reading in Plenary, where the proposed amendments will be presented to the whole parliament for a vote. This should happen by September 2013, barring unforeseen ‘spanners’. At that stage, Parliament can suggest further amendments, but is unlikely to, providing the groundwork has been undertaken properly (highly likely, with Ms McAvan in charge).

ENVI’s key objective at this stage is to make whatever amendments are necessary, without diluting the TPD revisions beyond what they want to see, in order to get it through during this Parliament. This is the task Linda McAvan has been given, and she has a well-deserved reputation for getting results.

This is why ECITA will continue to work with the MEPs, including Ms McAvan, to offer whatever assistance we can in achieving this aim, whilst obviously seeking to ensure that the destruction of our industry (and community!) is not an unwanted ‘side-effect’ in this process.

We shall be offering various resources to YOU, (starting with the template letter below) since we feel it is desperately important that your voices are heard as significant stakeholders in this process, and hope that you will join with us in our attempts to help the European Parliament make the necessary amendments to the proposals for electronic cigarettes so that our industry doesn’t have to stand in the way of the progression of this long overdue legislation.

Thank you all for your continued support.

Happy vaping, one and all!

Cheers,

Katherine

Suggested template letter for MEPs:

In an attempt to make it ‘user friendly’, I have highlighted the sections which require input, although of course, you are free to amend it in any way you wish, so that your views are clearly put across. Hard copies through the post are better than emails, if you can manage it, but if you must email, the address format is [first name].[last name]@europarl.europa.eu.

[MEP name] MEP

[Your address]

European Parliament
Rue Wiertz 60,
1047 City of Brussels,
Belgium

[Date]



Dear [MEP name]

I am writing to you today about the proposed revisions to the Tobacco Products Directive. I am a user of electronic cigarettes and I have grave concerns that the revisions to the TPD as proposed will make the products I am currently using unavailable. If electronic cigarettes become unavailable, I will then be forced to either source my nicotine through illegal grey imports, or by returning to smoking. Clearly, this is not an outcome that I would wish. I trust that you will want to ensure that public health is firmly at the heart of the revisions to the Tobacco Products Directive.

[Write your own story about what electronic cigarettes have done for you, how the choice of flavourings allows you to stay away from tobacco (if that is the case), how medicinal ‘solutions’ didn’t work (if that is the case), how much you value your freedom to choose, as an adult consumer, etc. Do try to keep it polite and fairly short, though. We need to respect their time.]

I am aware that this issue is now being examined by the Environment and Public Health Committee of the European Parliament, and that a number of approaches are being considered. I would urge you to support an approach that allows electronic cigarettes with a nicotine concentration of less than 5% (50mg/ml) to be sold as consumer products, in order to allow smokers access to this reduced-risk nicotine delivery method. I would be very happy to provide you with further information, if you would find this useful, but in the meantime, may I urge you to have a look at Clive Bates’ (former Director of ASH UK) blog: www.clivebates.com/ and at ECITA’s Documents www.ecita.org.uk/docs.html and their Science and Safety Information www.ecita.org.uk/science%20and%20safety.htm. I should be most grateful if you would respond to this letter.

I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.

Yours sincerely,

[matt1988]

Great work so far. I didn't stumble across the template until today, but I did email 7 of my MEP's a similar but not as official as the template above. With the ones I don't get a reply from I will use this template and send them another email, and then a letter.

[davess]

Fantastic work Katherine. I will be posting a copy of your template letter - with additions etc - to all of my MEPs this week. Keep up the good work.