Economist Article

[Jen]

Mar 22, 2013 11:41:00 GMT robby said:

Mar 22, 2013 11:36:18 GMT Jen said:

Oh, it's the same old same old. Quit or die, nicotine is poisonous and bad for you, addiction is evil, yadda yadda...yawn!

No, I wouldn't recommend anyone who has never smoked to have a vape. If I had the choice, I'd never have taken up smoking. In reality, though, these things can save lives, cause no passive harm and don't stink. End of story.

I think we would also probably find a few of the moaners actually gave up smoking (and nicotine) and think that we should suffer just as much as they did lol, they think "It`s just not bloody fair!!!"

Sucks to be them, heheh

[vereybowring]

I know that ex-smokers can be a pain when it comes to this.
However I still respect what they have done, they chose to stop and did so (so far since people can relapse after decades). If I'd overcome something I too would be overly satisfied with myself I have no doubt.

You have to remember we choose to use e cigs, they chose to quit and smokers still choose to smoke. All sides just have to have just a bit of tolerance for each other. I know many ex-smokers are very staid in their opinions but that's partly because they don't know anything about the full story of e cigs.

So yes, wherever possible correct information gaps but try to be polite and reasoned about it. You can't win an argument properly by arguing your point the same way as the opponent. An argument won by out shouting isn't really won and can be picked apart later by someone else.

[Malibu]

i shared it too

[Jen]

Mar 22, 2013 11:57:12 GMT vereybowring said:

I know that ex-smokers can be a pain when it comes to this.
However I still respect what they have done, they chose to stop and did so (so far since people can relapse after decades). If I'd overcome something I too would be overly satisfied with myself I have no doubt.

You have to remember we choose to use e cigs, they chose to quit and smokers still choose to smoke. All sides just have to have just a bit of tolerance for each other. I know many ex-smokers are very staid in their opinions but that's partly because they don't know anything about the full story of e cigs.

So yes, wherever possible correct information gaps but try to be polite and reasoned about it. You can't win an argument properly by arguing your point the same way as the opponent. An argument won by out shouting isn't really won and can be picked apart later by someone else.

I gave up smoking for 2 years cold turkey a few years back. I can therefore empathise will all sides of the argument to some extent. I think here, on this vaping forum for vapers, it's OK to express a little frustration with what can be perceived as very blinkered opinions from other parties as long as we present a less emotional and emotive face to those other parties on other media. No, going and commenting on articles like this one with 'OMG, you're all so stupid' or whatever shoutiness isn't helping anyone, but I don't actually see too much of that. I've found a lot of the vaping community know their stuff and have at it in public with information as their primary tool.

[vereybowring]

Yes but most anti commenter's won't even look at our side especially if you link to reports or other articles, most people are very fixed in their views. I count throwing loads of information at it as just a form of shouting at them.

We have to tread very carefully with it and not overload them with information, while at the same time making sure those in authority do get bombarded with all the information we can muster.

[Jen]

Mar 22, 2013 12:27:17 GMT vereybowring said:

Yes but most anti commenter's won't even look at our side especially if you link to reports or other articles, most people are very fixed in their views. I count throwing loads of information at it as just a form of shouting at them.

We have to tread very carefully with it and not overload them with information, while at the same time making sure those in authority do get bombarded with all the information we can muster.

Well, it's generally pretty damn hard to change someone's opinion anyway. At least if you give them the information, you know you've done the rational thing. That's how I see it anyway

[vereybowring]

Oh I agree with you, but alas rationality plays a very small part in it.

[MarkS]

Mar 22, 2013 11:57:12 GMT vereybowring said:

I know that ex-smokers can be a pain when it comes to this.
However I still respect what they have done, they chose to stop and did so (so far since people can relapse after decades). If I'd overcome something I too would be overly satisfied with myself I have no doubt.

You have to remember we choose to use e cigs, they chose to quit and smokers still choose to smoke. All sides just have to have just a bit of tolerance for each other. I know many ex-smokers are very staid in their opinions but that's partly because they don't know anything about the full story of e cigs.

So yes, wherever possible correct information gaps but try to be polite and reasoned about it. You can't win an argument properly by arguing your point the same way as the opponent. An argument won by out shouting isn't really won and can be picked apart later by someone else.

I do have to agree with you verey, but also disagree in that I think you will never change the mindset of people like that.
The counter arguments and links I have posted, are not for their benefit nor to change their minds. It's for the benefit of anyone reading those comments who may be put off trying out vaping because of misinformation from someone who is ignorant to the facts and posting drivel due to prejudice.

[vereybowring]

Mar 22, 2013 13:10:18 GMT MarkS said:

I do have to agree with you verey, but also disagree in that I think you will never change the mindset of people like that.
The counter arguments and links I have posted, are not for their benefit nor to change their minds. It's for the benefit of anyone reading those comments who may be put off trying out vaping because of misinformation from someone who is ignorant to the facts and posting drivel due to prejudice.

Cor blimey, you're even more cynical than me, I think you may be due a reward.

I will attempt to persuade even when I know it is futile, I may be cynical of human behaviours but very deep down I have a tiny glimmer of optimism.

I also realise many of the responses are to try and sway other readers, but still think you have to avoid putting too much information. Many a piece have I read/watched that has had loads of links to reports and information inserted and I just can't be bothered to read them. I have no doubt this is not my attitude alone.

[MarkS]

Mar 22, 2013 13:23:38 GMT vereybowring said:

Cor blimey, you're even more cynical than me, I think you may be due a reward.

I will attempt to persuade even when I know it is futile, I may be cynical of human behaviours but very deep down I have a tiny glimmer of optimism.

I also realise many of the responses are to try and sway other readers, but still think you have to avoid putting too much information. Many a piece have I read/watched that has had loads of links to reports and information inserted and I just can't be bothered to read them. I have no doubt this is not my attitude alone.

String em up that's what I say!!! nah just kidding.

I am being cynical aren't I? It's not flattering really and I used to such a happy go lucky chappy.

You make a fair point mate. I also get lost in the details too when people do the same.

[vereybowring]

Mar 22, 2013 13:29:01 GMT MarkS said:

I am being cynical aren't I? It's not flattering really and I used to such a happy go lucky chappy.

Everybody has at least a tiny cynic hiding in them, it gets out eventually.

I am by nature very cynical and can be extremely sarcastic but have spent years controlling these urges.
It's my in built addiction, sometimes I just can't stop myself.

[Jen]

Mar 22, 2013 13:29:01 GMT MarkS said:

String em up that's what I say!!! nah just kidding.

I am being cynical aren't I? It's not flattering really and I used to such a happy go lucky chappy.

You make a fair point mate. I also get lost in the details too when people do the same.

I think situations like this can make you cynical. The facts and figures are all there, but being ignored by people with other agendas. It's not the first time and won't be the last either...

And now we're all thoroughly depressed, I'm going to make a cuppa and have a lovely comforting vape

[vereybowring]

People might like this quite entertaining post about debate -
55 Simple Rules for Debate in the Modern World

[robby]

On this forum, we are amongst vapers, that is all who are intended to see these posts, ya gotta have a bit of fun every now and again, it isnt always about serious debate Lighten up

[MarkS]

There have been some brilliant comments made regarding this article now and all of the naysayers have been literally been dumbfounded by the replies to their rhetoric.

The article actually goes out in print tomorrow, so you'd expect many more negative comments.

Keep checking back and debunking any myths and out right lies.

But as Verey said earlier, keep it civil and informed.

We are all aware of the facts here, unfortunately the general public are not. Even the majority of vapers who don't use forums and for them vaping is a means to an end rather than a hobby, do not know as much as we do. We need to get our side out there and get people informed that this is not the new anti-christ or smoking reincarnated. The fact that it isn't smoking at all.

Replying to the comments there may not be much, but it is one of many avenues.