Should these be banned?

[monty]

I'm against banning things and think people should free to spend their money as they choose. But something aimed specifically at getting young people addicted to one of the most addictive drugs, well maybe it should be banned. I'm talking about
www.ok-smokey.com/e-shisha/e-shisha-starter-kit-strawberry-and-cherry-2mg.html
Specifically the 2mg/ml juice.
It sure isn't designed for ecig users who are on the last leg of cutting down their nic levels with the intention of quitting nic altogether. So what is for, if not to get young people addicted? At the very least young people should be warned that this is what the manufacturers are trying to do. It may sound counter-intuitive but it seems to me the low nic juice is the one that should carry a health warning. Something along the lines of Inhaling nicotine leads to addiction, a nicotine addiction is very hard to break. Users of higher nic content don't need the warning - we know already,

We know that John Dalli, the commissioner responsible for drafting the eu tobacco products directive, had to resign because of his links with the tobacco industry. So ask the question why did his proposed legislation make low nic juices exempt. Maybe because that's what the tobacco industry wanted him to do. They may prefer youngsters to start smoking rather than eshishing but anything that gets them addicted to nicotine is better than nothing.

[Jen]

I don't know much about shisha, but isn't the concept one where you sit down for a communal smoke/vape over the course of several hours, therefore making low/no nic a safer option?

I don't know any kids that could afford to splurge £95 on a bit of kit like that either. ???

[Gasper]

And you have to have a proper shisha pipe to be able to use it. There is a review of it in the reviews section.

allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/thread/22577/shisha-premium-review-electronic-hookah

[Deleted]

monty why do you think the product is aimed specifically at young people? I see no indication that it is.

[ChillerVapes]

Here in bradford MANY asian shops are starting to sell e shishas and e shishas eliquid is starting in some of them too.
I recon its because a real shisha does not have a high nic content, not to aim them at kids.

[monty]

May 8, 2013 23:02:05 GMT @simate said:

monty why do you think the product is aimed specifically at young people? I see no indication that it is.

Of course I could be wrong but the decorative pyramid looks aimed a the under 25s. Also the 2mg nicotine - not enough for a smoker nor a vaper and nonsmokers over 25 would not be dumb enough to start inhaling nicotine (IMHO) so that just leaves young nonsmokers.

[Deleted]

May 9, 2013 2:33:52 GMT monty said:

May 8, 2013 23:02:05 GMT @simate said:

monty why do you think the product is aimed specifically at young people? I see no indication that it is.

Of course I could be wrong but the decorative pyramid looks aimed a the under 25s. Also the 2mg nicotine - not enough for a smoker nor a vaper and nonsmokers over 25 would not be dumb enough to start inhaling nicotine (IMHO) so that just leaves young nonsmokers.

So what does that say about no nic eliquid then for example?

[whipitup]

May 9, 2013 9:23:59 GMT @simate said:

May 9, 2013 2:33:52 GMT monty said:

Of course I could be wrong but the decorative pyramid looks aimed a the under 25s. Also the 2mg nicotine - not enough for a smoker nor a vaper and nonsmokers over 25 would not be dumb enough to start inhaling nicotine (IMHO) so that just leaves young nonsmokers.

So what does that say about no nic eliquid then for example?

I guess it would say that there are no chance of addiction?

Why 2mg juice?.....just enough to get you hooked, but not enough to find it harsh for your first vape?

I do find the quote "gives hours of vaping fun" a little odd, as I vape because I need too, not because I find it particularly "fun".

Also pretty pictures of fruit (presumably) on the juice bottles........I thought this had been dropped so as not to be attractive to children?

JMO of course.

[Blownupdolly]

I can't believe they have the nerve to charge £95 for it!!
As I said on a similar thread in the loung, I can't make my mind up what I think about it.

[Jen]

May 9, 2013 9:40:53 GMT whipitup said:

May 9, 2013 9:23:59 GMT @simate said:

So what does that say about no nic eliquid then for example?

I guess it would say that there are no chance of addiction?

Why 2mg juice?.....just enough to get you hooked, but not enough to find it harsh for your first vape?

I do find the quote "gives hours of vaping fun" a little odd, as I vape because I need too, not because I find it particularly "fun".

Also pretty pictures of fruit (presumably) on the juice bottles........I thought this had been dropped so as not to be attractive to children?

JMO of course.

Really? I love vaping and have had hours of fun with my new hobby, trying out different juices, recipes, kit... And shisha is supposed to be communal, is it not, so 'fun' in this context is social too. 'Hours' because it's an event, a treat, something you do with your friends of an evening. There are shisha bars and clubs and whatnot, right? It's a thing.

Seriously, I don't know of anyone actively selling to kids, all the sites I buy from are over 18s only. This is not to say that some companies aren't dodgy or whatever, but if you're over 18, what you put in your body is your own business and going around banning things is a ridiculous nanny-state of affairs. Plus, banning stuff never works - Prohibition anyone?

[Roscopecotrain]

May 9, 2013 10:06:25 GMT Jen said:

May 9, 2013 9:40:53 GMT whipitup said:

I guess it would say that there are no chance of addiction?

Why 2mg juice?.....just enough to get you hooked, but not enough to find it harsh for your first vape?

I do find the quote "gives hours of vaping fun" a little odd, as I vape because I need too, not because I find it particularly "fun".

Also pretty pictures of fruit (presumably) on the juice bottles........I thought this had been dropped so as not to be attractive to children?

JMO of course.

Really? I love vaping and have had hours of fun with my new hobby, trying out different juices, recipes, kit... And shisha is supposed to be communal, is it not, so 'fun' in this context is social too. 'Hours' because it's an event, a treat, something you do with your friends of an evening. There are shisha bars and clubs and whatnot, right? It's a thing.

Seriously, I don't know of anyone actively selling to kids, all the sites I buy from are over 18s only. This is not to say that some companies aren't dodgy or whatever, but if you're over 18, what you put in your body is your own business and going around banning things is a ridiculous nanny-state of affairs. Plus, banning stuff never works - Prohibition anyone?

I have thought about this before. The sites just asks you to tick a box saying your 18. Doesnt take much to get your parents card or own and order. Believe me i know. My ex partners daughter managed to order £500 worth of stuff on ebay on my ex partners card one night and she was just 9 years old. Lol. Needless to say we didnt get refunded on it all. Kids are so tech savvy now, my 3 year old son knows how to swipe my phone to unlock it. Knows how to use the camera in it. Can look round apps to find the game he wants and then play it. Crazy.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2

[Roscopecotrain]

And if they are super savvy then they just write down the card details once and away they go.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2

[Deleted]

I think some are seeing it as something it isn't.

[Jen]

May 9, 2013 10:17:22 GMT Roscopecotrain said:

And if they are super savvy then they just write down the card details once and away they go.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2

Isn't that an argument for banning credit cards, websites and smart phones then??

Seriously, kids always have and always will get hold of stuff society has not deemed them old enough for. Adults and kids are always going to get hold of illegal stuff or things that some say are bad for them. They haven't banned alcohol, cigarettes, sugar, butter and chocolate yet. They did ban drugs and now no-one uses them anymore! No wait, that's not true is it?

If they did ban 2mg nic juice, it'd just force these hypothetical kids onto more nicotine. Put a warning on it, it'll be ignored just as easily as ticking a box to say you're 18 or the gross images on fag packets these days. People are going to do what they want, same as the threat of a ban on e-cigs in general, or juices higher than 4mg, has forced people here into stocking up, finding ways round it and so on. A ban is more for the people who want it in place than the people it's supposedly aimed at. It's a form of social conscience IMO and not a practical measure aimed at the real world.

I think I remember reading somewhere that the base line any country has managed to reduce incidence of smoking to is around 20% of the population. The people in that 20% are hardline, hardcore smokers. NRT, bans, guilt-inducing measures have no effect on them. So IMO the sensible, real-world attitude to take in those cases is harm mitigation and reduction, just like e-cigs provide. If, in this case, kids take up vaping rather than smoking, that's a win for me. It is in no way the ideal situation, but it might be the best we're going to get in the current state of affairs.

I think it's also important to remember that the state cannot tell you what to do with your own body or recreational activities if you are within the law. They can advise, no more. Anything beyond that is a moral issue, not a legal one. Some people are ideological, some practical, and most somewhere on the spectrum in between

[suede]

Kids will get anything they want. Just like I did when I was one.