ecca- what do you want them to do

[womble]

As the title. I'd like to know what you want ecca (Electronic Cigarette Consumer Association) to do, to be.

We are all consumers of ecigs and as ecca is representing you, I'd like to know what you would expect ecca to do?

Ecca's way forward is being discussed atm, so if you want a say, now is the time to do it.]

[giles]

redo the AGM, if it hasn't already happened
write to the politicians, meet them
have a plan for action if the MRHA/NICE report goes badly

[womble]

Jun 3, 2013 12:28:43 GMT giles said:

redo the AGM, if it hasn't already happened
write to the politicians, meet them
have a plan for action if the MRHA/NICE report goes badly

I'm looking for more long term direction, rather than short term ideas atm.

What I gather from your post, is that you would prefer ecca to concentrate on making sure vaping isn't banned, rather than being more looking after consumers re vendors/safety/etc?

Obviously it doesn't have to be one or the other, but we are talking about how much effort to put into each area.

Atm, I'm unsure of how much ecca can offer the fight for vaping to stay legal, not while there are so many people already doing a great job.

But it doesn't really matter what I think. I want to hear from you. I know I keep saying it, but I'm there to represent AAEC members views. Thanks for your views giles.


I don't know what is happening about the AGM atm, were you there at the last one? I understand it was a bit of a disaster.
What are your concerns about having another AGM and what would you like to see happen at one?

[giles]

I suppose I'd like ECCA to concentrate most on whatever seems most important at the time, which right now has to be protecting vaping from the legislators and bureaucrats.

ECCA can do a lot to help in the fight to stay legal, and should be doing a lot. It is shameful that it is not doing more. It will be listened to where individuals won't. It is for instance on the NICE list of stakeholders. Its German equivalent has been talking to the bureaucrats in Brussels. By doing nothing ECCA lets these people assume that UK vapers are either weak or uninterested.

I was at the last AGM, and yes, it was an unmitigated disaster. It failed to elect a secretary or chairman, amongst other failures. I'm sure if you read its constitution you'd find that ECCA has to have people in these roles, so now anybody who speaks on behalf of ECCA or spends money on behalf of ECCA is arguably doing so illegally. You have to appoint these officers - you can't just carry on without an agm.

For the rerun agm you need a system and a person with the ability to throw out the trolls quickly, and the chair needs to avoid becoming involved in the discussion and move reasonably swiftly to voting.

Apart from electing a chair and secretary, I'd like to see the agm consider, and hopefully agree, the proposition that ECCA's main focus for the current year should be defending our legal status. I'd like the officers to then commit to specific actions in that defence - such as contacting the relevant UK ministers, UK representatives on the EU committees considering the legislation, party leaders, and bureacratic bodies including NICE. All of which should have been done months ago.

[womble]

If you have so much great passion about this giles (which is brilliant), why haven't you got involved, or have you in the past? Do you want to get involved?

[giles]

If you hadn't stepped up womble then I guess I would have, but I'm glad you did. I'm getting a bit too old for pushing treacle up a hill, and the line between "passionate" and "grumpy old man" is pretty thin.

The chairman and secretary roles should be occupied by people who have been vaping a lot longer than me.

I don't actually like slagging something off unless I am prepared to do a little work to try and fix it, and I did say when you volunteered that if you wanted help, please ask. Though right now I seriously believe that ECCA is literally worse than useless - I suspect that there are people in the pharma industry thinking "vapers in the UK are clearly toothless, lets see if we can kill it there, it would make the next country easier". So I certainly don't feel like volunteering for anything which isn't overtly political.

And there is a limit to the time I would spend on this stuff, so if I'd been spending it trying to persuade the ECCA committee to change the way they thought, I probably wouldn't have got as far with my efforts as a private citizen, which have at least got some arguments listened to at junior minister level.

[Blownupdolly]

In my humble opinion, I don't feel it is a good idea to try fighting the EU with several different organisations or individuals. It needs to be one united front joined together for one big push. I don't know if there are politics involved here as to why ECCA could not join forces with ECITA to fight this one big issue together. afterall, it is in everyones best interest. Surely one big united front is better than separated smaller ones.

[gibla53]

Jun 4, 2013 10:01:13 GMT Blownupdolly said:

In my humble opinion, I don't feel it is a good idea to try fighting the EU with several different organisations or individuals. It needs to be one united front joined together for one big push. I don't know if there are politics involved here as to why ECCA could not join forces with ECITA to fight this one big issue together. afterall, it is in everyones best interest. Surely one big united front is better than separated smaller ones.

I agree Blownupdolly  certainly behind the scenes close collaboration between ECCA and ECITA  in political matters is to be encouraged . However ECITA  and anyone connected with the industry is dismissed by the EU as unrepresentative of consumers . 

A strong ECCA voice has been required for months as the only consumer association who regularly attends EU meetings is from Germany - once ECCA does get re-launched I hope its not too late to get strong collaboration from the various National Consumer Associations to get a common united approach to the EU. 

If anything remains after the EU fiasco and MHRA and NICE reports to also come the long term aim of ECCA  should be as a consumer focussed body 

[matt1988]

If someone is prepared to draw up reports, reasons and the such, put it in a PDF we then as ECCA can email and post the relevant parties including NICE, ENVI, MHRA etc. Unfortunately we simply don't have the man power to achieve everything.

Our resources currently are being spent on the redesign of the website. So if anyone is willing to do this, it would be much appreciated

[giles]

Jun 4, 2013 18:01:52 GMT matt1988 said:

If someone is prepared to draw up reports, reasons and the such, put it in a PDF we then as ECCA can email and post the relevant parties including NICE, ENVI, MHRA etc. Unfortunately we simply don't have the man power to achieve everything.

Our resources currently are being spent on the redesign of the website. So if anyone is willing to do this, it would be much appreciated

I'm not sure what you have in mind matt, but I am happy to help.

link is a draft letter to MEPs that I never sent because the advice is to make such letters personal, but it might do as a starting point for a letter from the ECCA. I'll work on it, but I would welcome suggestions from anyone else. It is html, rather than pdf, so people can copy & paste if they want. I can convert to pdf when we have something usable.

It is a bit late for NICE/MRHA. Last I heard, they were due to report today (well, yesterday now), which they haven't, or if they have they haven't put it up on their website. It is a good time to write to the politicians. We can write again when the NICE report is published.

[matt1988]

Ok, what I was thinking was something like linking them to peer reviewed studies, and maybe a few sound bites that have been quoted in papers, forums and such from users of the device, if you like use your own sound bites as I'm sure they are pretty relevant to what most users are saying/thinking.

Considering this will be sent to MEPs and MP's a brief overview of what MHRA (MPs) and ENVI (MEPs) plan to do with e-cigarettes and how users don't want the prices to rise/become harder to get hold of due to increased/over regulation, and how flavourings are such a key part of staying off tobacco.

If you can think of anything else to add then feel free to.

[matt1988]

Just one thing with that letter, they are saying NCP are e-cigs when actually they are simply nicotine containing products, just like patches, gums etc. or that's how I understood it anyway. Maybe call them ENDS in your letter Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems

[giles]

I don't like "NCP" much myself matt, I was just trying to use the terminology in the report. It's a bit late at night for thinking coherently - I'll have a look tomorrow. It needs more focus anyway, and I would think that most of the recipients could stand a longer and more academic letter from ECCA than they would from a private individual.

How important do you think the price is? Obviously we have to push for it being noticeably cheaper than tobacco, but I don't know how much further we want to go.