Very Angry. We all either don't exist or are lobbyists.

[vereybowring]

Everyone must read this now - corporateeurope.org/news/tobacco-lobbyists-all-fired-ahead-key-vote
and this - dickpuddlecote.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/ignore-public-listen-to-macavan-and-her.html?spref=tw

Also forum mods might want to bring this to everyone's attention. Chrissie

We need to let them know we are not a lobby set up by companies, we are EU citizens who are very pissed off at the suggestion we're either too stupid to research anything or are paid for by companies.

You definitely need to write to your MEPs and MP about this gem giving your full details including your phone number and demanding a response to this shocking article based on no proof.

I have already done it and asked them to cross reference even with my MP who met with me.

They are going to new levels of low to try and take e cigs away and we really can't let it slide.

I've already been suspended on twitter once but I know I will possibly end up being banned tweeting now.

[digicig]

From Very's linkie:

Electronic cigarettes: the next big thing?

It has already been reported in the media, in particular a recent exposé in the Wall Street Journal (WSJ),12 that the battle around the classification and restrictions on e-cigarettes in the Tobacco Product Directive has been intense. MEPs and their assistants have told CEO that they are most often contacted by the electronic cigarette lobby regarding this Directive.

Electronic cigarettes - also called ‘personal vaporisers’ - are battery-powered inhalers that vaporise a nicotine liquid solution. Electronic cigarette companies claim they are a safe alternative to cigarettes, but the World Health Organisation has warned that too little is known about the health risks of long term use. Moreover, the WSJ documented that e-cigarette makers are emulating tactics once used by tobacco companies, such as sponsoring medical studies and testimonials from doctors, and running television spots advertising the use of e-cigarettes indoors or in the presence of children. WSJ quoted a professor at the Research Center for Prevention and Health in Copenhagen as explaining that the e-cigarette industry “is really undermining all the progress we have made in de-normalizing smoking."

Under proposals in the Tobacco Products Directive, e-cigarettes would be classed as a medicine, subjected to intense testing and might only be available in pharmacies in some countries. The Directive also proposes they be reduced in strength. The Electronic Cigarette Industry Trade Association and the European Smokeless Tobacco Council are lobbying hard against these proposals. Individual electronic cigarette firms have also been directing intense fire at the Parliament, now it that the Directive is in MEPs' hands.

UK electronic cigarette manufacturer Skycig have urged users, their friends and family, to contact their MEPs, claiming that millions of people would turn back to cigarettes “effectively allowing 5 million people to die from smoking related illnesses”. 13

Paul Murphy MEP explained that in the Parliament, MEPs “are subjected to a lot of astroturf campaigning in the sense that it is manufactured. We get emails from so-called ordinary constituents about electronic cigarettes. But they are really detailed about the Directive.”

‘Astroturf’ is the name given to seemingly grass roots campaigns, that have actually been established, encouraged and sometimes funded by companies and corporate lobby groups interested in their success. One MEP assistant told CEO: “They have organised online, created electronic cigarette forums. They’re quite an aggressive lobby”. Another said: “We get a lot of abuse on Twitter about calling for more legislation on electronic cigarettes.”

Totally Wicked, another UK electronic cigarette firm, sent every MEP an e-cigarette. One MEP commented incredulously that “They are sending addictive drugs to MEPs. It is quite incredible”. Jutta Haug MEP from the S&D said she had been “strongly lobbied by electronic cigarette users”. The rapporteur on the Tobacco Products Directive, Linda McAvan MEP, has also said that “There is a very aggressive attitude.”

Indeed, Ms McAvan was the center of a controversy around e-cigarette company Totally Wicked after their managing director stepped down at the end of June, after admitting sending “inappropriate” emails to Ms McAvan. In the emails, the former managing director called in to question her legitimacy and motivations. 14

[kibbster]

Ahhhh boo hoo them.
Poor little MEPs that are being bombarded by people who are worried their new-found saviour from tobacco related illness is about to be taking away from them.
They should try being on our side where we've watched all the scams, lies and mistruths as well as the conflicts of interest working against us the last 6 months.

I guess if you can't ignore them, discredit them

[markm]

Its no great surprise that they will use any tactic to undermine the efforts of the individual,
they are getting a rather large cheque to do so and there is a lot at stake for all sides.
However it is going to backfire as they just gave us all a good reason to send another letter,
this time perhaps hand written, making it VERY clear that we are the REAL PEOPLE and the
ones that politicians are paid to listen to.

[ChillerVapes]

I can see all the campaigning, all the awareness we (normal tax paying citizens) are trying to raise is falling on death ears only to be scooped up and twisted into something what it's not!

I think the only way we are going to win this is of it goes to court. We need to start thinking of getting representatives, evidence, build a case and more importantly, all of us should start putting a little bit of cash aside to fund it.

They want to play like wankers, let's not kick off... rather lets hide in the long grass and spring a surprise and powerful legal attack in our defence when they least expect it.

[markm]

Jul 9, 2013 8:06:50 GMT ChillerVapes said:

I can see all the campaigning, all the awareness we (normal tax paying citizens) are trying to raise is falling on death ears only to be scooped up and twisted into something what it's not!

I think the only way we are going to win this is of it goes to court. We need to start thinking of getting representatives, evidence, build a case and more importantly, all of us should start putting a little bit of cash aside to fund it.

They want to play like wankers, let's not kick off... rather lets hide in the long grass and spring a surprise and powerful legal attack in our defence when they least expect it.

That really is defeatist, they are on the run, we need to press home the advantage
i can't stress how important it is to fight every single inch of the way.

[ChillerVapes]

Jul 9, 2013 8:18:52 GMT markm said:

Jul 9, 2013 8:06:50 GMT ChillerVapes said:

I can see all the campaigning, all the awareness we (normal tax paying citizens) are trying to raise is falling on death ears only to be scooped up and twisted into something what it's not!

I think the only way we are going to win this is of it goes to court. We need to start thinking of getting representatives, evidence, build a case and more importantly, all of us should start putting a little bit of cash aside to fund it.

They want to play like wankers, let's not kick off... rather lets hide in the long grass and spring a surprise and powerful legal attack in our defence when they least expect it.

That really is defeatist, they are on the run, we need to press home the advantage
i can't stress how important it is to fight every single inch of the way.

I don't think we have been defeated, I do however think that the mass majority of MP's and MEP's don't give a god damn shit about us unless we are linong there pockets in 1 way or another. Anything we try and do now will simply be chewed up and twisted before been tossed to the media to make US sound like the bad ones!

If we stopped all of a sudden, it would lead them into a false sebse of security, thinking they have won and then BOOM! Armed to the teeth with evidence, the right people to stand up for us and plenty of financial backing, we make our move and rip them apart using the justice system, something they have to listen to.

[markm]

Jul 9, 2013 8:27:55 GMT ChillerVapes said:

Jul 9, 2013 8:18:52 GMT markm said:

That really is defeatist, they are on the run, we need to press home the advantage
i can't stress how important it is to fight every single inch of the way.

I don't think we have been defeated, I do however think that the mass majority of MP's and MEP's don't give a god damn shit about us unless we are linong there pockets in 1 way or another. Anything we try and do now will simply be chewed up and twisted before been tossed to the media to make US sound like the bad ones!

If we stopped all of a sudden, it would lead them into a false sebse of security, thinking they have won and then BOOM! Armed to the teeth with evidence, the right people to stand up for us and plenty of financial backing, we make our move and rip them apart using the justice system, something they have to listen to.

That's just plain ridiculous, when you have an advantage you press it home, Not Back off,
To do anything else would be to give it away.
Didnt you see the tennis at the weekend?

[ChillerVapes]

Jul 9, 2013 8:52:28 GMT markm said:

Jul 9, 2013 8:27:55 GMT ChillerVapes said:

I don't think we have been defeated, I do however think that the mass majority of MP's and MEP's don't give a god damn shit about us unless we are linong there pockets in 1 way or another. Anything we try and do now will simply be chewed up and twisted before been tossed to the media to make US sound like the bad ones!

If we stopped all of a sudden, it would lead them into a false sebse of security, thinking they have won and then BOOM! Armed to the teeth with evidence, the right people to stand up for us and plenty of financial backing, we make our move and rip them apart using the justice system, something they have to listen to.

That's just plain ridiculous, when you have an advantage you press it home, Not Back off,
To do anything else would be to give it away.
Didnt you see the tennis at the weekend?

Who said we had the advantage?

From as far as I can see, everyone is against us at the moment.

The Government, The NHS, Big Pharma, NICE, The European Union, All of the Tobacco companies, The Press and WHO who just don't really want to say anything positive about us.

Everyone of them don't care about the facts nor the people who enjoy vaping. All they are concerned with is lining their pockets.

If this new law comes in, Big Pharma get to make ecigs and sell them to the NHS, the NHS will get funded from the Government to supply the inferior ecigs to people, the Government will coin in from taxation of ecigs sold over the counter and the Tobacco companies will have people turning back to smoking as well as been able to afford to make an ecig which passes all of the legislation so they also will be able to coin in from the NHS as well.

They ALL have ganged up on us and from where I am standing, they have the lead at the moment, it's going to take much more than sending our MP's and MEP's letters for our voice to be clearly heard. If it was doing so well, we wouldn't have these crazy news reports saying we are friggin lobbyists for an AstroTurf campaign! instead, MP's and MEP's would be standing in front of the media saying how much they disagree with the vote and how they support the vaping community.

Ok, so we might have a hand full of them on our side, but really... what's a handful of rice against a rice field?

[Chrissie]

vereybowring I've added a Please read label to this thread & also added a link to it in the Global headers.

[vereybowring]

Jul 9, 2013 9:30:27 GMT Chrissie said:

vereybowring I've added a Please read label to this thread & also added a link to it in the Global headers.

Thank you,

so you're still not a company lobbyist then Chrissie ?

Ridiculous fabrication.

[Chrissie]

Completely ridiculous

[vereybowring]

Well I am currently suspended from twitter pending appeal, apparently those against us can post what they like but we aren't allowed to actively respond to the spread of misinformation or promote our side effectively.
I suspect many more users will be getting treated the same in the next few days.

[djs]

I find it simply incredible.

Paul Murphy MEP explained that in the Parliament, MEPs “are subjected to a lot of astroturf campaigning in the sense that it is manufactured. We get emails from so-called ordinary constituents about electronic cigarettes. But they are really detailed about the Directive.”

Who are these people (Paul Murphy) and what the hell does he think is going on?

I sent bona fide emails (personal testimony) which contained detailed information about the directive; that now makes me a lobbyist for the e-cig business? NO - it makes me a user of e-cigs that doesn't want to see them banned.

Madness. Wake up! It's the 21st century and we have the internet....that means we *know* what is going on (in detail) and now that is being used to discredit our legitimacy?

How many emails have been sent pleading for our wish to keep e-cigs out of the TPD? Hundreds of 1,000s? Millions across Europe?
and an MEP doesn't even have the skills to establish which are real and which are simply commercial lobbying?

Shame on him. Wake up and smell the coffee (or the custard...)

[Deleted]

The process is underway, they are voting tomorrow, this is a timed press-release from a "independent" body who are most likely sponsored themselves to publish such garbage - it's an attempt at swaying voters. Keep the communication going with your MEPs and and keep it accurate. Most will have decided now anyway but voicing your opinion still counts. There are plenty of entries in the TPD which could make it fail which are unrelated to ecigs.