Explain Please

[sammy13]

Before I go around preaching to all who will listen I had better have my facts straight so I have a few questions please.

Am I correct in thinking - If those in power get their way this will be the scenario -

All the equipment we all own for vaping whether its a £5 battery with a cheap clearo , or a provari with something special attatched this will all be legal, and allowed, and usuable. All stores will still be able to sell it all.

The juice and cartomisers , plus any d.i.y products currently available will not be sold as they are any more.
You will have to buy them from a chemist, or perhaps some other outlets the gov allow.

So to recap we can still use all our hardware, but we will not be able to buy as we do now any kind of liquids.

Or have I got this totally wrong and they will want to ban it all and bring out their own device which we all have to then buy.

[giles]

I think that you are almost certainly right about the equipment. They could try to ban it, but it would be difficult and probably they won't bother.

I would be very surprised if juice was available in bottles. I think it likely that it won't be available in cartomisers either, only in some device that will deliver a controlled amount, so you know exactly how much nicotine you are getting. (I'm sure they'd like to limit it to this, but may not be able to without taking the powder inhalers off the market). I would guess that these could be sold anywhere that you could buy aspirin - not limited to places which have a qualified dispensing chemist in attendance.

[Jen]

Good question, and I'm not sure there's a clear answer. The way I see it is to use the example of MJ-smoking equipment. You can buy everything but the MJ itself (which is illegal I should probably point out to comply with forum rules!). You can walk into a shop and buy all kinds of glass equipment, hydroponics, papers, filters, vapourisers and so on, all perfectly legal. I don't know how then they could classify a battery or tank as a medicinal item requiring certification. I am fairly sure the legislation could only apply to juices or nic base, as it's mainly the nicotine these idiots seem to be bothered about, and they also seem to only be fixated on cigalikes and therefore cartridges.

If anyone knows to the contrary, I'd be glad to know

[djs]

I think you are right (hope!).

It'll be the liquids and anything containing nicotine that'll be the first to go. It might come back, but we all fear the possible scenarios.

For a while, I was banking on being able to buy 4mg liquid and maybe bump it up with some base liquid and a splash of flavouring. Trouble is, even a few bottles of base won't last forever. I'm not sure about the fixation with cig-a-likes and cartos; you might be right (I suspect people see other devices as far-removed from the mainstream) but it'll be the liquid with nicotine that'll get the bashing.

I suspect zero nic products (shisha type) might escape altogether which i.m.o. kind of defeats the whole process, if you were trying to ruin the entire e-cig market. Almost nobody is worried about nicotine (those in the know)....to my knowledge....??..... but people are clearly seeing vapour with nicotine as dangerous (or not proven safe) as smoke with nicotine.

Maybe I'm stupid, but I can't even see how a look-a-like can be classed in a "tobacco products directive". Now, a "nicotine products directive" might be more relevant, but even then, why should the entire e-cig industry need to prove nicotine is fairly harmless when the politicians seem to have the right to choose on our behalf that nicotine is guilty until proven innocent.

It's all so silly, and sad too. Sad that people supposedly interested in health are so quick to judge (and condemn) a remarkable alternative.

[Jen]

I'm not sure they've thought it all through, it seems like such a knee-jerk reaction to me if I'm honest. I can't speculate on possible motives, lobbying etc., I don't have the evidence. But neither do the legislators have any evidence whatsoever of any harm of any kind caused by vaping (properly used) of any kind! The burden of proof is always on the claimant, not the opponent, and it's very, very hard to prove a negative.

Vaping - the celestial teapot of tobacco

[andy01424]

From here and others over the past few months it will be down to liquids mainly nicotine and flavours ,as PG & VG are basically food products,the problem with battery components is they could have to be classed differently problem comes is trying to restrict batteries no brainer there,holders[vamo etc] can be used for other things ie labeled as torch holders,attys well thats a no brainer as this conflicts with things used for asthma suffers etc....... so basic flavours and nic........hence why few here just incase have been stockpiling it lol incase you missed it nic base can be frozen basically indefinetly,pref glass bottles,what ever the outcome it will be a few yrs prob 2 before anything gets concreted,plus in this time even if they legislate it ,then legal challenges

to be honest flavourings will just be made, if they get to expensive at home, basic homebrew...main problem will getting hold of the nic at anything maybe above 4mg,and if so it will be pricey as pharma companies will screw it to give you an idea 100ml home made can work out around £5 to make now look at this link nicorette spray see how much they reckon its costing to make per 100ml

www.boots.com/en/Nicorette-QuickMist-1mg-spray-mouthspray_1208089/?cm_re=c9001_link1-_-nicorette-_-quick_mist_single&cm_sp=brand_treatment-_-c9001-_-c9001_link1

nicorette qick mist 1mg!!! they reckon it costs wait for it ................................................................................13 ML | £146.08 per 100ML


click on quick mist............as you can see this more about ££££££ then anything hence WHO etc are badgering for it


Our quit smoking way is costing Pharma companies a huge loss in revenue for patches gum etc

[Deleted]

I can see there possibly being a problem with tobacco flavours if this legislation goes through, other flavours are food flavourings so we all may have to get used to Vanilla Custard, I dread the thought. Dave

[chrisde]

The directive is not thought through, it is open to anything. The intention of it is, of course, to prohibit anything that can be used to vaporise nicotine liquid and the nicotine liquid itself, so that anything we already have would then be illegal.

How that might work out is up to the individual member states. In Germany we have two different regulations: The Arzneimittelgesetz (medication law according to 2001/83/EG, the one mentioned in the TPD) and the Medizinproduktegesetz (according to 90/385/EWG, 93/42/EWG and 98/79/EG as the core and 2003/32/EG, 2005/50/EG and 2007/47/EG as amendments for physical items meant to help heal a person, like inhalers, wheelchairs, bandages, syringes, you get the idea).

Basically any item that is used to apply a medicine needs a license as well.
On those grounds our customs used to seize atomizers that were imported from China, two or three years ago.

Both types of licenses are issued by the same federal agency - the BfArM (Bundesinstitut für Arzneimittel und Medizinprodukte) - this is analog to your MHRA I would think. The BfArM has a bad track record of trying to medicalise vaping products in the past, and they work closely with the source of all this stuff - the DKFZ (Deutsches Krebsforschungszentrum), which is connected to the WHO.

So, to try and answer the question - if they get their way, all that we are used to using will be illegal. It might well be that it can not be enforced, but I am sure they will try their best in Germany.

[markm]

I doubt they are even bothered about closing all the loopholes, and it will have more than a string vest.
What they can and will do, is put the retailers out of business, without some one to sell to new vapours
that will be the end of it - an ever shrinking number of long term users ducking and diving to get a vape.

The determined will always find a way - "hi I'm new to this" will be but a distant memory.