Samsung ICR18650-22B - suitable?

[fred]

OK, so I've acquired 9 of these samsung batteries from an old laptop battery.



I charged a couple in Sunday on my Nitcore i4, and they are still reading 4.2v on my multimeter today (Friday).

So, I've managed to find these which appear to be very similar (if not the same). The only difference seems to be the '351' underneath 'SD1' which is '461' on the alibaba batteries.
The datasheet on that page suggests to me that these batteries would be able to discharge at 6.6amps?
That datasheet also says about 'over-temp detection', so i would guess these are protected batteries?

So are they the same batteries?
If so (or not) would the ones I have be suitable for a vamo (dimensions & power - I know they're only about 2Ah, but they're here at no cost!)
Or would I need some kind of mech mod to use them.

Google has not been my friend on this one, unfortunately, so hopefully some battery or vamo expert or modder will be able to help me out.

[jordan]

I don't know enough about batteries to be 100% certain but I would assume they are protected batteries, the ridge in the wrapping at the end would suggest that there is a protection chip on the bottom of that battery. Again I might be wrong so I would wait for the pro's to show up and tell you for sure. Maybe raid2506 would be able to help with this one.

[raid2506]

Thanks for the link jordan.

I use these myself and have had no issues with them.

When you recover cells from laptop batteries please inspect each for damage and discard any that are dented or split, etc.

Test the voltage of each cell before charging, you will usually find all but one are of a similar voltage.

The odd man out is the bad cell which caused the laptop battery to fail and this should be discarded.

During the first couple of charging cycles you should monitor the batteries for overheating every 30 minutes or so and every 5 minutes from about 3.8v onwards.

Any that get hot to the touch should be discarded safely. Not 'too hot to touch', just hotter than the others!

Here it is naked:




No obvious protection circuit of the type with which we are accustomed.

The top has the extra crimped cap shown with a plastic insulator on top and six vent holes.

The only info I have been able to get from Samsung is this "Certified by UL Safety Standard UL-1642, the Samsung lithium ion battery withstands overcharging by applying a 5-way safety stop for high thermal safety"

There is much better info available from Underwriters laboratories which govern the UL standard for Lithium Batteries.

Having had a scan through the PDF it would seem that these batteries are protected by an on board fuse and/or resistor and vented case. I would recommend you read the document.

Pay particular attention to the Technician sections and testing sections as they cover these batteries.

I hope this helps.

[davyc]

Interesting thread.
I have often wondered how to go about recovering the batteries out of a laptop pack. I have two dead hp laptops here that did not have battery problems so would it be worth trying and how do you go about it ? How many do you usually get ?
Cheers guys.

[andy01424]

also when charging the duff one out of it[hence laptop battery discharge rate falls],gets warm while charging discard those,these sometimes do not show any leakage or volt drop---better safe than sorry ,but there norm 18650 ones in laptop batterys

Dayc round about norm is 6,split battery pack be carefully theres also a circuit board inside, remove batts ,they will have tabs soldered pull them off with a pair of pliers

[raid2506]

Sept 13, 2013 13:50:23 GMT andy01424 said:

also when charging the duff one out of it[hence laptop battery discharge rate falls],gets warm while charging discard those,these sometimes do not show any leakage or volt drop---better safe than sorry ,but there norm 18650 ones in laptop batterys

Dayc round about norm is 6

That's what I said

[andy01424]

Sept 13, 2013 13:51:52 GMT raid2506 said:

Sept 13, 2013 13:50:23 GMT andy01424 said:

also when charging the duff one out of it[hence laptop battery discharge rate falls],gets warm while charging discard those,these sometimes do not show any leakage or volt drop---better safe than sorry ,but there norm 18650 ones in laptop batterys

Dayc round about norm is 6

That's what I said

why yes you did lol

[raid2506]

Sept 13, 2013 13:42:21 GMT davyc said:

Interesting thread.
I have often wondered how to go about recovering the batteries out of a laptop pack. I have two dead hp laptops here that did not have battery problems so would it be worth trying and how do you go about it ? How many do you usually get ?
Cheers guys.

Ok, first thing that springs to mind is don't do it. Buy quality batteries from a reputable source. It's better to be safe.
Nobody should ever break open a battery pack to recover the cells, there is an elevated risk of fire or personal injury.
If you aren't the type that would usually go taking things apart, tinkering and risk taking then maybe this isn't for you?


The cells are usually sealed inside a plastic casing which has to be broken or cut open.
Then the cells have to be mechanically separated, and the control circuit removed, this can be done with hand tools.
You will need to clean up any sharp edges on the individual cell ends, inspect for damage and check voltages.
It's best to write the initial voltage on each cell with a permanent marker before charging.
Charge a pair to 50% of max, check temperature and voltage then let them stand while you charge the next pair to 50%.
Once all at 50% you can charge the 1st pair to max, monitor the temp and voltage especially from 3.8v onwards.
Any that start to get hot or drop volts should be immediately discarded in a safe manner (not into the household waste bin).
Once all of your cells are charged and you have discarded any bad ones you can use them in your protected mods.

Cells which are not designed to be replaced by lay persons are often constructed to different safety regs and should not be used in mech mods.

[davyc]

Thanks raid. Never really had a problem taking things apart, difficulty is getting them back together again........
Might have a look someday, I have enough batteries at the moment to keep me going.
Cheers

[rich64]

scavenged some a couple of weeks ago from an old laptop and pretty much what raid describes above is what i done.

Only other thing i did was leave them for 24 hours then checked any voltage drops (eg 2 at 4.2 and one at 3.9 the 3.9 would have been dicarded but as it panned out they all kept there charge consistent with each other)

[raid2506]

Just a note for you rich64, a fully charged Lithium cell in good condition should still show 95% charge after 90 days.

But if the 3.9 came up to 4.2 without getting hot then it should be good.

[rich64]

Sept 13, 2013 16:36:22 GMT raid2506 said:

Just a note for you rich64, a fully charged Lithium cell in good condition should still show 95% charge after 90 days.

But if the 3.9 came up to 4.2 without getting hot then it should be good.

Thanks raid i appreciate the additional info .

[davyc]

So, opened up an old laptop battery, recovered six Samsung icr18650-22e batteries. Tested them on volt meter and they are all reading 3.8 volts steady. It seems that they have kept what charge was in them well.
Am I right in thinking that these batteries, even though they look same as, are not the protected type as the protection would have been built in to the circuitry contained within the pack covering all six?
Cheers

[raid2506]

Hi davyc

Yes it's difficult to nail them down sometimes.

Have not found any specific reference to internal protection on these cells so it's best to treat them as unprotected.

The crimped top is a standard configuration and can sometimes lead to people thinking that an unprotected cell is actually protected when it isn't.

Have you put them through a controlled charge cycle yet? As you are well aware the 3.8-4.2v part of the cycle is the most likely to show up any defects and should be monitored closely.

You will often find all the cells in a failed battery pack can be in good shape, normally due to a charge circuit failure or neglect rather than a bad cell.

I find a failed cell rate of about 3 or 4 in 20, if I break open a battery pack and don't find a bad cell I start over with testing as I don't trust the pesky little buggers.

I have found some of the test criteria:

9.1 Overcharge Test
Test method: To charge the standard charged cell with 12V and 2.2A at 25?
for 2.5 hours.
Criteria: No fire, and no explosion.
9.2 External Short-circuit Test
Test method: To short-circuit the standard charged cell by connecting positive and
negative terminal by less than 50m? wire for 3hours.
Criteria: No fire, and no explosion.
9.3 Reverse Charge Test
Test method: To charge the standard charged cell with charge current 2.2A
By –12V for 2.5 hours.
Criteria: No fire, and no explosion

So aside from anything else these are a pretty rugged commercial battery.

Bear in mind that those test criteria are for a new cell and yours may be many months or even years old.