My Understanding of Steeping.

[jtc]

I mix well with my magnetic stirrer my mate made me.
Leave bottle open with a cloth over the top tied with an elastic band over night, to dissipate any unwanted alcohol and the like.
Then top on and shake now and then.
Pudding type juices (pies & custards) I try to leave at least 4 weeks (very hard)
Fruits and yoghurts a week and I find ok

[minime]

Yogurt a week bloody hell I leave it over night and that's it.

[solac77]

Vapingzone super concentrates...mix to 2.5 % or higher put rest of mix in bottle boil kettle put bottles in mug with a bit of cold water top up with hot water to neck of bottles...leave until water is cold...job done heheheh!

[monty]

Vaping myths abound and I am saddened by vapers' propensity to lap them up. I don't earn any brownie points for exploding myths but I think on any forum members should try to present facts and back them up with references where they can.

Steeping may not be the right word but I don't think there is a right word. Using the word 'homogenising' to mean thoroughly mixing is reasonable but why import a new word when steeping will do and homogenising seems to be something else.

Homogenization or homogenisation is any of several processes used to make a mixture of two mutually non-soluble liquids the same throughout. This is achieved by turning one of the liquids into a state consisting of extremely small particles distributed uniformly throughout the other liquid. A typical example is the homogenization of milk, where the milk fat globules are reduced in size and dispersed uniformly through the rest of the milk.

from Wikipedia. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homogenization_%28chemistry%29

PG, VG and nicotine are all mutually soluble so I don't think steeping is homogenising. What is certain is that homogenising cannot be achieved by leaving a liquid to stand for any length of time.

Sept 17, 2013 12:00:45 GMT ChillerVapes said:

Each ingredient is of different viscosities which means when placed in a bottle together, they don't actually mix together at the molecular level although through the naked eye, you wouldn't be able to tell.

I would need some references to be convinced of this. I suspect it's make believe. Where did you come across this 'fact'.

We know some of the things that occur during steeping but not the whole story. But surely it is better to admit our ignorance than to start making things up.

A couple of things we do know:-

Chemical change through oxidation. Oxygen is a very reactive molecule and will chemically bond to many molecules forming new molecules. Some of the flavouring molecules readily oxidise and change flavour and this is part of what we call steeping.

Chemical change by diketones. There are at least two things going on mainly concerning the carbonyl group link One is the sort of straightforward chemistry we learnt at school. The other concerns the fact that the oxygen in the carbonyl group has a partial negative charge and the carbon a partial positive charge and this can knock electrons in other molecules into new orbits, causing new chemical bonds to form without the diketones themselves changing. This can be a good thing - in custards but a bad thing in other eliquids where the molecular changes result in particular flavours being lost - examples I've come across are Spotted Dick and Nobby's Cookies which start out nice and flavourful but rapidly become just creamy custard flavoured.

[nanotm]

I always thought that allowing a mixture time to develop was pretty much the same idea as maturation process for home brew, you add a few gallons of different stuff together at the final stage and let it stand for a few weeks to fully mingle everything to drinkability standards in the bottle.

in years gone by I made a few gallons of peach schnapps, the last couple of bottles were a much smoother drink being a few years old than the first few yet the alcohol tester registered the exact same as when it was first bottled off /

some flavours go off over time whilst others get richer smoother and more full bodied the longer they sit, take custards, you mix it and hide it in a cupboard it tastes shallow after a week, muted after a fortnight, starting to shine after a month and really good after its 2 months + yet the majority of fruits are past their prime within a few days of being opened to air ....

[chykensa]

I can't add anything scientifically new to this debate, but can only speak from my own experiences. I have been mixing juices for almost 3 years now, and am a particular fan of dessert and custard flavours, having a sweet tooth!

My custard-based juices are mixed, allowed to breathe overnight, and then sealed and put away for at least 6 weeks. After this time they are full, rounded and rich, and although they get darker after more time, no real improvement in flavour is noticed.

Fruit mixes are ready after as little as a couple of days, but do improve after a week or so. Beware strawberry concentrates, however; they do fade after a few weeks, so juices that contain this flavouring need to be consumed fairly quickly before this happens.

Mints and menthols are ready to vape straight away, and there is negligible improvement after steeping.

I do despair when fellow mixers knock up a large quantity of especially dessert juice, and then rave about it after 2 days!! Leave it to work it's magic (well, it is magic to me, anyway), and try it after a month - it will be SOO much better.

One tip: mix regularly, and at larger quantities than you require once you have perfected or trialled a recipe. This way, you will always have a stash of juice which is well-steeped/infused/homogenised, and as long as you continue to mix like this you will never need to use a juice which is not quite ready.

Hope this helps!

[markus]

What a great thread about steeping, as someone said its really interesting to hear the different ways people steep their e-liquid.
If using a warm bath in an ultrasonic does anyone know if theres a maximum temp that you shouldnt go over ?

I wish I could be as organised as some on here, i always forget about making juices up on a regular basis, run out & end up buying some cheap liquid to tie me over, then i get impatient afer 2 weeks & try them....9/10 times theyre horrible, I leave them another 2 weeks & sometimes i'll end up chucking them down the sink..... but i think its down to me not knowing what percentage of concentrate to use because manufacturers dont all recommend the same amount.....also the amount of vg - pg affecting the flavour strength, reading threads like this is ceratinly a big help so thanks to everyone thats commented so far.
Might swap to one shot mixes as i cant afford to waste money.

[Perpetua]

Mar 27, 2016 0:27:26 GMT markus said:

What a great thread about steeping, as someone said its really interesting to hear the different ways people steep their e-liquid.
If using a warm bath in an ultrasonic does anyone know if theres a maximum temp that you shouldnt go over ?

Tepid . . . . if you absolutely must use the warm bath method, too much heat will not only ' dry ' out your mixes, it will also cause flavour and nic to degrade.

5 years mixing, there's only ( and will ever ) be one method of steeping - which is time and a little patience.

Mar 27, 2016 0:27:26 GMT markus said:

I wish I could be as organised as some on here, i always forget about making juices up on a regular basis, run out & end up buying some cheap liquid to tie me over, then i get impatient afer 2 weeks try them....9/10 times theyre horrible, I leave them another 2 weeks & sometimes i'll end up chucking them down the sink..... but i think its down to me not knowing what percentage of concentrate to use because manufacturers dont all recommend the same amount.....also the amount of vg - pg affecting the flavour strength, reading threads like this is ceratinly a big help so thanks to everyone thats commented so far.
Might swap to one shot mixes as i cant afford to waste money.

The problem with that, even if they did - is that there's no accounting for individual taste markus. Just with recipes, any percentages used are what suit the creator, which may or may not be to your liking. Getting to know your palate and flavours is important.

Making small samples until you get the flavours right for you, is still the most successful and least wasteful method of home brew. I shudder when I read of people mixing vast quantities of something completely untested to them.

One shots are less hit and miss if you don't have the patience for any of the above.

[muddin4709]

I don't think Ii could let it steep for more then a day lol!

[ukwarrior]

I am glad to read this- it is a tiny peeve of mine when people talk of 'steeping' their juice, as it is not the correct term, but has come into such common even I use it for ease of understanding.

With most of my juices, I actually fall into a minority- I like it fresh! There are only a few flavours that I allow to have a full steep. There definitely is a difference in flavour, but a lot of them I prefer before the process. I do always try both ways to make sure though.

From my understanding, when you 'steep' your juice, what really happens is those perfumey scents settle down. The flavours you taste in your juice are actually a result of your olfactory sense (Smell), and after the juice has been allowed to sit for a fair time, these scents are smoother for lack of a better term, and result in the nice flavour you get.

Now, I know this method can be a bit controversial due to nicotine degradation, but for some flavours I feel benefit from a homogenisation I actually use the heat method to speed things up. This time of year, I put my bottle above a radiator for a few hours.

The reason this is controversial is due to nicotine degradation when exposed to heat, but I think the darker colour you get with a 'steeped' juice is from nicotine degradation anyway!
If you have some nicotine, put it in an open bottle, and leave it out for the time you would allow your juice to. You will see it takes on a much darker colour.

Fantastic explanation and I enjoyed reading it

[goneforagasper]

Does all this mean I have to rename my steeping cupboard to homogenising cupboard?




 

[Perpetua]

Nov 25, 2016 11:56:56 GMT ukwarrior said:

The reason this is controversial is due to nicotine degradation when exposed to heat, but I think the darker colour you get with a 'steeped' juice is from nicotine degradation anyway!
 

It is . . . . and the higher a nicotine content, then the greater a colour change will occur. But, it's a natural colour change and blending process that takes place without heat as opposed to ' forcing ' this process.

Think of vegetables or fruits that are allowed to ripen naturally and compare the taste of them to those that are force grown - I know which I'd rather be consuming!

Similar also applies to eliquid . . . . .

[jtc]

Yup I have 4 months old custard mixed up minus the nic and virtually no colour change has taken place but it tastes bloody lovely imo

[car147]

A very informative thread, and must say my findings are much the same as @cheykensa. Spot on with the strawberry, always seem to fade with time, i have heard (but not tried yet) that adding a bit of Dragonfruit lessens the fading.

[jtc]

I am finding tfa strawberry ripe mixed with tfa sweet Strawberry seems to hold quite well tbh. I'm vaping 3 month old strawberry now and it's very prominent