An MEP responds to my email re: the German court decision

[OneDay]

Dear Oneday

Please accept my apologies for the previous incorrect response you received. My office receives hundreds of emails a week and unfortunately, although I am aware of the issues and read as many of them as I can, I cannot reply to them all personally. You were sent a response I wrote to a different aspect of the forthcoming Tobacco Products Directive. I assure you that the issue of e-cigarettes has also been brought to my attention, in fact the number of emails and letters that I and my colleagues have received is in the thousands. Most have told me how e-cigarettes have helped them to quit smoking, and who are concerned that the proposals at EU could result in a de-facto ban of these products.

It might be worth underlining what has been said in Parliament so far: nobody wants to ban e-cigarettes, and that is certainly not my intention. But we do have a responsibility as legislators to ensure products are safe, quality controlled and deliver to users what they claim on the package. As you may be aware, the proposal on the table from the European Commission is for e-cigarettes to be regulated in the same way as nicotine patches and gums. MEPs have yet to come to a view on how best to regulate e-cigarettes on the market and whether and how to amend the proposal from the European Commission.

My colleague Linda McAvan is the MEP leading this draft legislation through the European Parliament, and she has taken evidence from e-cigarette companies, as well as from users, regulators and doctors.

The UK Government has been looking at the issue for a number of years, and gave evidence at a workshop in the European Parliament recently. The audio and video recordings of these meetings are available online here:

www.europarl.europa.eu/committees/en/envi/events.html?id=other#me

nuzone and here:

www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/en/committees/video?event=20130507-1230-COMMITTEE-ENVI&category=COMMITTEE&format=wmv.



After listening to all the different arguments, Linda tabled amendments proposing a lighter touch regulatory framework for e-cigarettes, which closes some of the current loopholes - such as manufacturing problems, quality control, and ongoing monitoring of use - but which is not as strict as medicines regulation, meaning that companies would not have to test and prove their products in the same way. It would also mean that e-cigarettes could be sold as widely as cigarettes, creating a more level playing field with tobacco products. She leaves the option for e-cigs to be authorised as medicines, as some companies (and users) may prefer this, given the advantages in terms of a lower VAT rate, and the possibility of e-cigarettes being available free to patients on prescription.

In short, Linda wants to encourage the potential benefits that e-cigarettes offer regular smokers in terms of harm reduction, but these potential benefits need to be balanced against the need for more studies into long-term effects, as well as the risk that e-cigs could turn into a gateway product for children. There were newspaper reports in the past few weeks that a number of schools in England have already had to ban e-cigarettes from classrooms. E-cigarettes do contain nicotine which is a highly addictive product and I am sure most people agree that we do not want a generation of young people recruited as addicts. We need minimum age limits on e cigarette sales and regulation of advertising.

These are still early days in the scrutiny process. Many colleagues from different political groups have also tabled amendments, and once these have been put to a vote, we will start negotiations with ministers from the 27 different EU countries. Only once MEPs and Ministers have reached agreement will there be a new law.

Thank you again for sharing your views with me - these will be taken on board in the ongoing discussions.

Best wishes,

Peter Skinner MEP

Labour Representative for the South East of England

[barrynorton]

Sept 18, 2013 10:53:35 GMT OneDay said:

"I am sure most people agree that we do not want a generation of young people recruited as addicts."

Quite so. Let's register coffee as a medicinal product right now.

[dragon]

Sept 18, 2013 11:27:34 GMT barrynorton said:

Sept 18, 2013 10:53:35 GMT OneDay said:

"I am sure most people agree that we do not want a generation of young people recruited as addicts."

Quite so. Let's register coffee as a medicinal product right now.

I'm thinking more cola ... kids start drinking that and it's a short hop and a skip to a lifetime of coffee addiction

[Deleted]

Och aye and all the veggies that contain nicotine tee hee

[ckc]

Not listening are they.

Linda tabled amendments proposing a lighter touch regulatory framework for e-cigarettes

Missed an important word in that sentence :-

Linda tabled amendments proposing a lighter touch medicines regulatory framework for e-cigarettes

[barrynorton]

Gateway drugs

[andy01424]

Time they get round to it, UKIP or Vote on out or in EU would be held

[ckc]

Reply from Brian Simpsons office, who never replied back to my original follow-up email,when I sent the German Courts decision.



I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your earlier e-mail to Brian Simpson.

As far as your follow-up e-mail of ** September is concerned, we have forwarded it to the office of Brian Simpson’s colleague Linda McAvan, who as you are aware is leading for the Labour side on this issue. It goes without saying that Brian fully supports the position Labour MEPs as a group have adopted over this matter, which is in line with Linda McAvan’s recommendations.

[Moggy]

They need to restrict the sale of 'energy drinks' too, there's more caffeine in them than coffee.

Every reply I've had or read just keeps spouting the same nonsense.

[Deleted]

Most of the kids around my area seem to prefer blow and Es so a little cola or caffeine might make a pleasant change

[chykensa]

Here's my reply from Giles Chichester MEP - has more than a passing resemblance to the OP's letter!"!!!!!!

Thank you for your email setting out your thoughts on a proposal issued by
the European Commission to amend current European law concerning the
manufacture, presentation and sale of tobacco and related products.

Among the products to be affected by the proposed changes are electronic
inhalers, commonly known as personal vaporizers or e-cigarettes, which
vaporize a liquid solution containing nicotine into an aerosol mist which is
then inhaled to simulate the act of smoking tobacco. The Commission proposes
to limit the amount of nicotine in solutions sold for use in electronic
cigarettes to four milligrams of nicotine per millilitre, unless the
products have been classified as for medicinal use. This would render the
solution too weak to be a viable source of nicotine for smokers or
ex-smokers, or would require manufacturers to apply for a costly licence to
manufacture medicinal products.

You are not alone in contacting me on this issue - many constituents feel
similarly strongly. I have raised your concerns with my colleague Martin
Callanan, the UK Conservative MEP following the TPD in the ENVI committee,
and he has examined the arguments and sees the potential e-cigarettes offer
as harm-reduction devices to improve human health. I understand that
e-cigarettes offer concentrated nicotine to addicts without the 4000 toxins
and carcinogens found in tobacco smoke, that use of e-cigarettes removes the
risk posed to non-smokers (and especially to children of smokers) by second
hand smoke, that e-cigarettes appeal to adult smokers seeking to quit but
not generally to children or those not yet addicted to nicotine, that
traditional nicotine replacement therapies proposed by the NHS and the
pharmaceutical industry have had very limited success in helping smokers
quit permanently, and that thousands of British e-cigarette users (and
millions across the EU and the world) are likely to return to smoking if the
directive is amended as foreseen and nicotine concentrations are limited to
4mg/ml, which may lead to a large percentage of such users dying of
smoking-related diseases that they might otherwise have avoided. Such
arguments have led the UK Conservatives to conclude that the proposed
changes to limit permitted concentrations of nicotine solution sold in the
EU are counter-productive and will do more harm than good.

Mr Callanan, as a member of the Parliament's Committee on the Environment,
Public Health and Food Safety, has been putting forward these arguments and
working to convince other MEPs of the foolishness of diluting nicotine
solution to the point of uselessness. I would also encourage you to raise
awareness among others in the vapourizing community. If you have not already
done so, I would encourage you to write to your MP and request that they
raise the matter in Westminster. If we bring to the attention of the public,
the political world and the media the strong arguments in favour of
e-cigarettes as a harm reduction device and the number of lives which can be
saved through their use, we have a very strong chance of winning the
argument.

I hope this reply has gone some way to address your specific concerns.

Yours sincerely

And from William Dartmouth MEP

Dear Andy XXXXXXX,

UKIP, being strongly libertarian, agrees with your personal rights to take tobacco and the like for whatever personal pleasure you take from it. We believe that the EU should have no jurisdiction over us either as persons or as the United Kingdom in these matters, and that we are entirely able to take these decisions for ourselves as responsible individuals and as an independent nation. We will certainly oppose this legislation at all levels, from votes in committee, speeches as opportunity arises, meetings with industry lobbyists (BAT are in contact with us), and final votes in the Strasbourg parliament.

Unfortunately, our chances of success in votes and amendments are small as the three old parties all vote against us and in line with the EU band-wagon. The EU is entirely against personal liberty and freedom, and certainly wishes you to be forced to be healthy in the way it decides for you.

Very best William Dartmouth

Office of William (The Earl of) Dartmouth MEP
European Parliament
ASP 4 F 146
60, Rue Wiertz
1047 Brussels

At least they had the decency to reply - the other two haven't (yet!)

[kibbster]

"nobody wants to ban e-cigarettes"
"but which is not as strict as medicines regulation"
"creating a more level playing field with tobacco products"


Something tells me Linda and the MHRA aren't singing from the same song sheet.

[barrynorton]

Sept 18, 2013 16:44:56 GMT chykensa said:

more than a passing resemblance to the OP's letter!"!!!!!!

Do you think so? I think the first letter is very positive.

"working to convince other MEPs of the foolishness of diluting nicotine solution to the point of uselessness."

[chykensa]

barrynorton - please accept my thanks and apologies. You are right, I have seen a letter posted elsewhere on the forum which is almost a carbon copy of my reply, hence my comment about passing resemblance. I also apologise to the OP, whose letter is really quite different to my first reply - sorry!
I'm dashing out now, but will find the letter I'm referring to later, unless someone comes across it in the meantime.
I was heartened by the first letter, and although the second is on behalf of UKIP, who I agree would have a hard time overturning the Lab/Con vote, it is also sounding positive notes.
Is it my imagination or is our campaign to write to MPs, MEPs, etc. finally having some success?

[kibbster]

Sept 18, 2013 17:59:02 GMT chykensa said:

barrynorton - please accept my thanks and apologies. You are right, I have seen a letter posted elsewhere on the forum which is almost a carbon copy of my reply, hence my comment about passing resemblance. I also apologise to the OP, whose letter is really quite different to my first reply - sorry!
I'm dashing out now, but will find the letter I'm referring to later, unless someone comes across it in the meantime.
I was heartened by the first letter, and although the second is on behalf of UKIP, who I agree would have a hard time overturning the Lab/Con vote, it is also sounding positive notes.
Is it my imagination or is our campaign to write to MPs, MEPs, etc. finally having some success?

It certainly is.
They can't ignore us now and I think we are even starting to annoy The Angel of Death (McAven) which is a result in itself!