Mods... You may need to delete this.. but...

[Raffles]

Oct 24, 2013 23:33:42 GMT womble said:

I wonder though, what Germany has to gain now from releasing this to the worlds media?

There has to be an angle in there somewhere, normally I presume this sort of thing is kept between various departments and in private. What does Germany want from the US?

It really is like a game of poker, isn't it? It sickens me that the people in power (that have always known what is going on, or else are just stupid) are just playing with us pawns... they really don't give a damn about us... just want to play power games to increase their own perception of their power (scary!). I just want to bang their heads together and get them to come into the real world (or perhaps pigs might fly).

[Blownupdolly]

Oct 24, 2013 23:15:41 GMT womble said:

There is a difference in red top newspapers hacking phones (although they really did only access their voicemails illegally through bad password management as far as I am aware) and the secret service of a country tapping voice calls of another country.

As Bluefish says, everyone does it who can and those who can't, are trying to. Getting caught however turns the whole thing upside down, people will be scapegoated, actions denied, while the true work goes even further underground. It may even stop while they try to get round the latest detection, but as soon as they think they are on top, it will start again.
Been going on since telecoms started.

Telecoms engineer for 20 years (but never in secret work)

I beg to differ that there is a difference between journos hacking phones and countries doing it. As far as I can see, the only difference is the amount of money and technology spent to do it, and the motives for doing it. If you strip it all back, both are trying to gain access to someone else's private information illegally.

[womble]

Oct 24, 2013 23:50:47 GMT Raffles said:

Oct 24, 2013 23:33:42 GMT womble said:

I wonder though, what Germany has to gain now from releasing this to the worlds media?

There has to be an angle in there somewhere, normally I presume this sort of thing is kept between various departments and in private. What does Germany want from the US?

It really is like a game of poker, isn't it? It sickens me that the people in power (that have always known what is going on, or else are just stupid) are just playing with us pawns... they really don't give a damn about us... just want to play power games to increase their own perception of their power (scary!). I just want to bang their heads together and get them to come into the real world (or perhaps pigs might fly).

Think back to WW2, the leaders then knew exactly what was going on everywhere, but still (at the end of the fighting) threw thousands of people into the death pit, in the interests of their country and the peace.
Nothing has changed, maybe it's more in the media, so they have to be more careful, but that's all.

I think they do care, but it's in the notion of the entire population, as caring. It's always been a game of poker, since.......... well since government started. Look back in history and it generally was alot worse, because they couldn't be found out Now it's less blatant and they always claim its in our interest.

I think the main question is, is do we trust the people in charge to do the best job they can in the circumstances?

On the whole, I do, because believing otherwise is too scary to think about.

[womble]

Oct 24, 2013 23:56:57 GMT Blownupdolly said:

I beg to differ that there is a difference between journos hacking phones and countries doing it. As far as I can see, the only difference is the amount of money and technology spent to do it, and the motives for doing it. If you strip it all back, both are trying to gain access to someone else's private information illegally.

One is trying to do it for financial gain and one is told to do it for the benefit of the nation, bit different.

[womble]

Oct 24, 2013 23:50:47 GMT Raffles said:

Oct 24, 2013 23:33:42 GMT womble said:

I wonder though, what Germany has to gain now from releasing this to the worlds media?

There has to be an angle in there somewhere, normally I presume this sort of thing is kept between various departments and in private. What does Germany want from the US?

It really is like a game of poker, isn't it? It sickens me that the people in power (that have always known what is going on, or else are just stupid) are just playing with us pawns... they really don't give a damn about us... just want to play power games to increase their own perception of their power (scary!). I just want to bang their heads together and get them to come into the real world (or perhaps pigs might fly).

www.google.co.uk/search?q=angela+merkel+cleavage&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=FbB&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=orJpUpqUEePQ0QXuqYH4BA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1232&bih=609#q=angela+merkel+cleavage&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&safe=off&tbm=isch&imgdii=_

I'm thinking about forgiving her

[Blownupdolly]

Oct 25, 2013 0:11:01 GMT womble said:

Oct 24, 2013 23:50:47 GMT Raffles said:

It really is like a game of poker, isn't it? It sickens me that the people in power (that have always known what is going on, or else are just stupid) are just playing with us pawns... they really don't give a damn about us... just want to play power games to increase their own perception of their power (scary!). I just want to bang their heads together and get them to come into the real world (or perhaps pigs might fly).

www.google.co.uk/search?q=angela+merkel+cleavage&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=FbB&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=orJpUpqUEePQ0QXuqYH4BA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1232&bih=609#q=angela+merkel+cleavage&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&safe=off&tbm=isch&imgdii=_

I'm thinking about forgiving her

You seriously need help if Angela gets you going! Even with the cleavage.

[Raffles]

Oct 25, 2013 0:05:10 GMT womble said:

I think the main question is, is do we trust the people in charge to do the best job they can in the circumstances?

On the whole, I do, because believing otherwise is too scary to think about.

Unfortunately... I don't. Apart from Obama, who I do trust, but not the American system of government, as displayed in the recent financial chaos. It's time for someone to 'take the stage' because all the rest are just 'jobbing'!

[Jaguar7777]

I have an American Wife, but I am pretty sure she would be forgive me for making the following points.


1: Who voted to put America in charge of world affairs?

2: What gives them the right to dictate who can an cannot be allowed to have Nuclear weapons?

3: Why should I trust them to do what is right for the world?

4: Like us in the UK they could do with cleaning up their own backyard before trying to force others to do so.

5: They have gotten entirely too big for their britches.


God save America? ........................ Why?

I just ran that past my Wife, and she gave it the thumbs up.


Jag. (Anti American? No ... just sick of all the bullshit.)

[womble]

Oct 25, 2013 0:15:53 GMT Raffles said:

Oct 25, 2013 0:05:10 GMT womble said:

I think the main question is, is do we trust the people in charge to do the best job they can in the circumstances?

On the whole, I do, because believing otherwise is too scary to think about.

Unfortunately... I don't. Apart from Obama, who I do trust, but not the American system of government, as displayed in the recent financial chaos. It's time for someone to 'take the stage' because all the rest are just 'jobbing'!

You've fallen into the trap of (someone looks good and talks straight, therefore he must be trustworthy) On the surface, I like Obama, I want him to do well and change the US into something we all want. But we have no idea what goes on between the lines, we'll find out (some of it) a long time after he is gone from the WH, or assassinated (possibly, considering the nuts in the US)

Although I do agree that most USA elected officials are not someone whom I'd like to place the safety of the western world into their hands.

In fact I'd like the the whole USA to become more like us, or the better of us anyway which means I think I know better than most of the world..... what right do I do that?

[Raffles]

Jaguar7777... cos there's no-one else to help. If you want an alternative... sorry can't think of one. I know it's sad but that's how it is!

[womble]

Oct 25, 2013 0:22:06 GMT Jaguar7777 said:

I have an American Wife, but I am pretty sure she would be forgive me for making the following points.


1: Who voted to put America in charge of world affairs?

2: What gives them the right to dictate who can an cannot be allowed to have Nuclear weapons?

3: Why should I trust them to do what is right for the world?

4: Like us in the UK they could do with cleaning up their own backyard before trying to force others to do so.

5: They have gotten entirely too big for their britches.


God save America? ........................ Why?

I just ran that past my Wife, and she gave it the thumbs up.


Jag. (Anti American? No ... just sick of all the bullshit.)

Cool questions

1. The US and it's fleet of supercarriers.
2. See 1
3. They believe in god and Jesus, plus see 1
4. They can't as their own population are out of control, they are worse than us, (IMO)
5. Did you see 1?

God save America? Because they believe and belief you are the best and have the right to tell everyone else what to do, can be bad........Ummm do I really have to relate to history?

[Raffles]

womble... will you please stop arguing with me... I want to go to bed!

Hopefully the sun will come up tomorrow and we'll all wonder what we were talking about.

[womble]

Oct 25, 2013 0:38:07 GMT Raffles said:

womble... will you please stop arguing with me... I want to go to bed!

Hopefully the sun will come up tomorrow and we'll all wonder what we were talking about.

Sorry raffles, I do love a good discussion, but I don't have any friends to do it with any more, so I jump on anything which seems interesting (although I really do find this fascinating).

[Raffles]

Oct 25, 2013 0:43:32 GMT womble said:

Oct 25, 2013 0:38:07 GMT Raffles said:

womble... will you please stop arguing with me... I want to go to bed!

Hopefully the sun will come up tomorrow and we'll all wonder what we were talking about.

Sorry raffles, I do love a good discussion, but I don't have any friends to do it with any more, so I jump on anything which seems interesting (although I really do find this fascinating).

You're a real gent womble... goodnight and see you tomorrow

[Deleted]

Any one listening in on a phone conversation between my wife and her sister would fall asleep after the first two hours!