RIP Nelson Mandela

[xs2man]

Of course you are correct. But terrorism is terrorism.

I get that the game has changed of late, and some of the terrorism that is happening just now is obviously much worse than what was happening then, but the severity of the action does not make up for the taking the action in the first place.

I'm not saying that he wasn't, eventually, a good person. Just saying he's not the ultimate role model that he seems to be portrayed as today, as many people appear to forget WHY he was imprisoned.

[suede]

Mandela was never a terrorist. He fought the terrorism of apartheid-- That is his only link to it
FREEEEEE NELSON MANDELA
RIP

[Blownupdolly]

Dec 6, 2013 11:48:58 GMT xs2man said:

Of course you are correct. But terrorism is terrorism.

I get that the game has changed of late, and some of the terrorism that is happening just now is obviously much worse than what was happening then, but the severity of the action does not make up for the taking the action in the first place.

I'm not saying that he wasn't, eventually, a good person. Just saying he's not the ultimate role model that he seems to be portrayed as today, as many people appear to forget WHY he was imprisoned.

And I beg to differ. You totally don't get it. Maybe he was a terrorist, but the reason he became one of the biggest positive role models ever to have lived, was the fact he learnt decency, morals and ethics through time, and genuinely lived by these attributes in his darkest hours and later on when released, which enabled him to change an entire country's disgusting behaviour. Whether right or wrong, he didn't want anyone punished or treated wrongly, even though these same people locked him away for most of his life at that point. He preached forgiveness, kindness and equality, and that is the ethics and morality I spoke of.

All of us when young, have done things we should be ashamed of. If you say you haven't you are a liar. The difference for Nelson Mandela was, his choices were made at a time where he, his family and all of his race were living under the most awful constraints and living conditions. When you take into account the things the whites were doing to his people I personally understand WHY he did what he did. Can the same be said for today's terrorists? Hardly!!

[OneDay]

To be clear - I was not, and am not, condoning any sort of terrorism now or in the past. I merely wanted to introduce a reminder into the eulogies that Mandella had not always been the saintly figure he is seen as today. That's all.

[xs2man]

I do get it. He did what he did because he thought it was right. Doesn't mean that what he did, bombing military installations, power plants, telephone lines and transport links was the right way to go about it.

I'm not saying he wasn't a great person, or that he doesn't deserve praise for what he did for SA and the world as a whole.

But terrorism is terrorism no matter how you cut it. Whatever happened to peaceful protest?

As for the last statement :

When you take into account the things the whites were doing to his people I personally understand WHY he did what he did. Can the same be said for today's terrorists? Hardly!!

I'm pretty sure that todays terrorists are claiming EXACTLY the same thing. Except I don't recall the SA government sanctioning drone strikes on civilian neighbourhoods.

I am not condoning this in any way BTW. Just trying to put a bit of perspective on the whole thing.

[xs2man]

Dec 6, 2013 12:37:09 GMT OneDay said:

To be clear - I was not, and am not, condoning any sort of terrorism now or in the past. I merely wanted to introduce a reminder into the eulogies that Mandella had not always been the saintly figure he is seen as today. That's all.

Same as me to be fair.

[Blownupdolly]

Dec 6, 2013 12:41:10 GMT xs2man said:

I do get it. He did what he did because he thought it was right. Doesn't mean that what he did, bombing military installations, power plants, telephone lines and transport links was the right way to go about it.

I'm not saying he wasn't a great person, or that he doesn't deserve praise for what he did for SA and the world as a whole.

But terrorism is terrorism no matter how you cut it. Whatever happened to peaceful protest?

As for the last statement :

When you take into account the things the whites were doing to his people I personally understand WHY he did what he did. Can the same be said for today's terrorists? Hardly!!

I'm pretty sure that todays terrorists are claiming EXACTLY the same thing. Except I don't recall the SA government sanctioning drone strikes on civilian neighbourhoods.

I am not condoning this in any way BTW. Just trying to put a bit of perspective on the whole thing.

Can I politely ask that if you want to discuss and score political points, could you start a different thread of your own? This thread was made to post respectful tributes to a man the vast majority of people see differently to you, and has not been dead 24hrs. You are entitled to whatever opinion you want, but I feel it more than a tad disrespectful to do it in here. Thank you.

[suede]

Rather than answer the pathetic posts. I will leave the last words to the man himself.
Our resort to armed struggle was purely a defensive action,the factor which necessitated the armed struggle still exists today. We have no option but to continue....we have waited too long for freedom.

Death is something inevitable. When a man has done what he considers to be his duty to his people and his country,he can rest in peace. I believe I have made that effort and that is,therefore,why I will sleep for the eternity.

[Smokeybebe]

Dec 6, 2013 12:31:59 GMT Blownupdolly said:

Dec 6, 2013 11:48:58 GMT xs2man said:

Of course you are correct. But terrorism is terrorism.

I get that the game has changed of late, and some of the terrorism that is happening just now is obviously much worse than what was happening then, but the severity of the action does not make up for the taking the action in the first place.

I'm not saying that he wasn't, eventually, a good person. Just saying he's not the ultimate role model that he seems to be portrayed as today, as many people appear to forget WHY he was imprisoned.

And I beg to differ. You totally don't get it. Maybe he was a terrorist, but the reason he became one of the biggest positive role models ever to have lived, was the fact he learnt decency, morals and ethics through time, and genuinely lived by these attributes in his darkest hours and later on when released, which enabled him to change an entire country's disgusting behaviour. Whether right or wrong, he didn't want anyone punished or treated wrongly, even though these same people locked him away for most of his life at that point. He preached forgiveness, kindness and equality, and that is the ethics and morality I spoke of.

All of us when young, have done things we should be ashamed of. If you say you haven't you are a liar. The difference for Nelson Mandela was, his choices were made at a time where he, his family and all of his race were living under the most awful constraints and living conditions. When you take into account the things the whites were doing to his people I personally understand WHY he did what he did. Can the same be said for today's terrorists? Hardly!!

Totally totally agree with this! Well said dolly, I was just trying to post something similar but you e said all I wanted to say, and better.

[Smokeybebe]

Dec 6, 2013 12:03:28 GMT suede said:

Mandela was never a terrorist. He fought the terrorism of apartheid-- That is his only link to it
FREEEEEE NELSON MANDELA
RIP

Agree 100%

[Smokeybebe]

Dec 6, 2013 11:48:58 GMT xs2man said:

Of course you are correct. But terrorism is terrorism.

I get that the game has changed of late, and some of the terrorism that is happening just now is obviously much worse than what was happening then, but the severity of the action does not make up for the taking the action in the first place.

I'm not saying that he wasn't, eventually, a good person. Just saying he's not the ultimate role model that he seems to be portrayed as today, as many people appear to forget WHY he was imprisoned.

Because he wanted the black man to be equal to the white man. If that makes him a terrorist, then I am too.

[xs2man]

I think this has been lost on too many people here. Obviously his beliefs didn't make him a terrorist. Quite the opposite, they made him a great man. His actions earlier in his life did make him a terrorist.

My argument is not against him on a personal level. He did a lot of great things for his people, his country and the world. And for that he should be remembered fondly.

This has gone too far, imo. I was simply trying to point out that the mans life changed over the years from terrorist to the truly inspirational man he was at the end. Whilst his later life should rightly be applauded, perhaps his earlier actions shouldn't, in fact, be taught to children as an example of how humanity should behave.

[Perpetua]

RIP Mr Mandela . . . . thank you.

[Smokeybebe]

[Blownupdolly]

Dec 9, 2013 13:12:54 GMT Smokeybebe said:

And could have been let out many years before that by bowing down to their demands for release, but refused!! I think about that a lot right now. If he had been a lesser man, he could have agreed, got out, and caused havoc.