Are we Vapers the biggest threat to E-CIGS. Video.

[jeffc]

Hi Peeps. A new slant on why Governments are so anti-e-cigs. We could be the cause ?




Many a true word spoken in jest see 2 nd Video.




Makes you think if "TRUE".

[Blownupdolly]

Interesting stuff, although he is telling us what many of us already knew. The government doesn't give a toss about our health or well being. As the Jessie J song goes.... It's all about the money, money, money....

[kibbster]

I'm sure tax and what they are going to do with all these healthy people that live longer is a concern in Gov.
Personally I think the Gov are short sighted enough that the loss of tobacco revenue is enough to scare them silly.

But we can't argue what we don't know, not many of us are financial gurus to that level we are just people who know the health benefits of not smoking/smoking less.
We can only argue what we know and understand.

[Deleted]

All of the above is very true ... the Government preaching that we all should be leading more healthy lives to reduce the strain on the NHS and to live longer is total hypocrisy .... people dying at the present rate and faster/earlier is the only way they can balance the books ... as Dolly says it's all about finances.

[giles]

I think the government bit that bullet years ago, or they wouldn't have stopped smoking in pubs. But my experience of talking to politicians (a junior minister & my MP who used to be a Cabinet Minister) is that talking about lives saved doesn't move them at all.

[toots]

Ok, we can tell them not to worry about our pensions, haven't the government been harping on about the obesity problem over the last few years and dying early from obesity!! So, there you go those living longer on e-cigs can draw their pensions from the peeps who die early from obesity. Solution found

[davetherayon]

Govt has already covered the expense of old age care, by making you pay out of your savings and then home up to £150000. That will rise over time.

Sent from my HTC One using proboards

[markm]

£70,000 per successful quit attempt, that's the governments own figure.
So 1.3 million X £70,000 which is estimated to double again each year,
The maths is attractive to politicians who wish to listen!

[djs]

Who is Andrew Scotchmer?

He is all over the place with his opinions and ideas. 44 youtube videos all to "help" us illiterate and stupid vapers.

I don't watch him, so if he's got a serious message, somebody better explain.

Sorry.

[xs2man]

The economic case is a non starter. Unless they tax ecigs to oblivion, the math doesn't work.

I have been using the math mentioned in the video for years. Albeit formerly as justification for smokers NHS bill. But it's all the same, this time against the ecig though.

Smokers die, on average, 5 years earlier than non-smokers. So that means 5 years less pension payments. For everyone. So that's £110.15 just now, per week, per person. That's £5727.80 per year, per person. That's £28,639 per smoker, saved on the pension bill. Let's assume, however, that all other costs are the same (which I doubt), but I'm talking about housing here etc...

So that's just the start. Not even taking into account taxes and the like, that were mentioned in the video. Now to recoup that money from ex-smokers, you would have to tax them more. So that's a tax, over their "vaping" career of £28,639, just to get back the pension payments. Never mind the tax collected from the tobacco you are now not using.

You can't go to governments with an economic case for ecigs, as the math will NEVER work for them. Italy's recent 80% tax would barely touch the sides of the revenues raised by smokers. The ONLY way to get a sensible message across will be through health, as scary as it may be.

[djs]

Jan 7, 2014 16:46:32 GMT xs2man said:

You can't go to governments with an economic case for ecigs, as the math will NEVER work for them. Italy's recent 80% tax would barely touch the sides of the revenues raised by smokers. The ONLY way to get a sensible message across will be through health, as scary as it may be.

I was thinking about e-cig tax earlier on. Presumably, long-term, it will happen.

It's a scary prospect. As the "quality" (not) brands say less than 1ml can be 30-40 cigarettes, where would you even start.

1ml (cartomiser) = £5? ... nope, that's an instant end of the cartomiser business.
10ml = £10?... nope, that's the end of the 10ml e-liquid business.

£2-3 on a bottle - maybe? But that's not even going to be a drop in the Ocean compared to Tobacco.

The entire justification for extra tax/duty (I don't even know what it is actually) was the health aspect.

If they ever bring in some heavy-duty tax, it'll be instant mixing supplies ordered.

[djs]

OK, so I watched it.

......and learned almost nothing.

I'm sure he's a decent bloke and good at whatever but I would argue that making an economic case is a non-starter.
Health is the only "angle" and we have to pray that politicians have some humanity.

[Deleted]

I don't know if it is selfish or a sensible precaution but I started a while ago on a mission to make myself self sufficient (for at least 5 years) in mechanical mods (no electronics to go wrong), RBAs, wick and wire, Nicotine base and tobacco flavours .... everything else (other food type flavourings, PG, VG and batteries) has other non-vaping related uses and would not be subjected to excessive taxes. If the anti-ecig brigade succeed in legislating or taxing us out of existence I will NOT be going back to the ciggies even if it means that I will be vaping only behind closed doors.

[lal]

I think his argument is a bit simplistic. Although an ageing population is definitely a problem, an ageing healthy population is much less of a problem. Where in the past smokers would have contracted lung cancer and died, now they trend to have lengthy talents and instead doe with chronic diseases after long illness. If we reduce smoking then people will have a longer healthy life expectancy, so will be able to continue to work and contribute economically for longer.

A big issue with smoking is the link with deprivation and inequalities. Reducing smoking in more deprived communities is a sure way to reduce health inequalities. A more equally society is one we all want surely?

[giles]

Jan 7, 2014 12:47:08 GMT markm said:

£70,000 per successful quit attempt, that's the governments own figure.
So 1.3 million X £70,000 which is estimated to double again each year,
The maths is attractive to politicians who wish to listen!

Trouble is, we all know that the £70K is a nonsense figure, sold by the Pharma companies to justify spend on NRT.

But I agree with lal, the pension calculation won't come into this, because as people live longer they'll just raise the age you have to work to before you get it.