Vype e-cig TV campaign banned advertising

[toots]

As it says - banned www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jun/11/vype-e-cigarette-tv-campaign-banned-advertising

[lobeydosser]

It is all just "a play on words" which at times, we are as much to blame as the advertising companies.

To say that we have "stopped smoking" just because we now Vape instead is going to come back and bite us in the future when eventually a law is passed defining, in law, what Vaping is and is not and with all the brew ha-ha that already exists over smoking, be assured that all the wording in that law will be scrutinised to the "N"th degree.

[toots]

lobeydosser but we HAVE stopped smoking, there is no two ways about it. We don't light up, we don't burn tobacco + other chemicals and we don't produce smoke when we exhale. So we HAVE stopped smoking.

I don't care what anyone says, we are NOT smokers now

[OneDay]

It's f***ing crazy that e-cigs can't be advertised as a cessation aid with all the information now available from people like us showing that they are the very best way to stop smoking!!

[willy9b]

OneDay - I think we would be very unwise to push for the promotion of vaping as a 'cessation aid' as we run the risk of getting mired in all the rules & regulations that the producers of patches, gum, sprays and those silly plastic dummies have to endure.

We all know vaping works far better and we're not shy of telling smokers how well it works, how to get started, and what to avoid.

Word of mouth is ultimately better than any advertising, IMO.

[OneDay]

I'm not saying they should be advertised as an aid to stopping smoking, I just think it's crazy that the law prohibits them being described in that way.

I smoked. I tried giving up with all the usual methods. I failed.
I vaped. I never smoked another cigarette. I ceased. I succeeded.
Simples.

[willy9b]

Crazy? - maybe. Since when did the old maxim 'the law is an ass' cease to apply? We may well disagree with the laws/regulations that apply here but we have to abide by them, until they are changed. The last thing we need is inappropriate and draconian legislation of our little vice. (Again, IMO)

We both agree about the simple fact that vaping is the best way of stopping smoking (by far!) but I hope you can see why I think the vendors of e-cigs and -especially- e-liquids should steer clear of claiming this, at this time.

[lobeydosser]

The words that were used during the law making process to have smoking banned in public places were all well and good for the situation at that time.
However that was before e-cigs and vaping came along and now the inhalation of nicotine by means other than the burning of tobacco, means that the law will have to be changed, either to include vaping as an additive to smoking or as a different thing altogether. Until that happens and owner of any property will be perfectly within their rights to decide whether people can or cannot vape on their premises.

I was using an IOLITE before I started vaping e-juice. The Iolite heats up ground and dried tobacco so that I can vape it.
So I was still using tobacco. I was still inhaling it. I was still getting my nicotine hit.
So was I still smoking?
Questionable.
Vapers would say no, I was vaping.
I say yes I was still smoking. But in a healthier way.

In the end it will all come down to words and until a definitive law is pass defining, if it can, the difference between vaping and smoking so that everyone, smokers and non smokers, can understand that there are differences, then this argument will continue with no answers, only opinions.

About a year ago there was a Poll taken on here as to whether folks thought that there were still smokers now that they are vaping and about one third reckoned they were still smoking, albeit by vaping.
Now if some of us consider that we are still smoking, how can we expect non smokers to feel any different?

[lobeydosser]

Another point regarding whether we are classed as smokers or not would come from those that have actually Stopped Smoking altogether. IE, not turned to Vaping but are completely off Nicotine.

I have had a few run ins with these types on other Forums and, to a man, they all say the Vapers are just Smokers in another guise.

A true definition of any action must cover all facets of that action in such a way that the meaning can be understood by all.
The definition of both Smoking and Vaping are so airy fairy that that this argument could rumble on for years.

[toots]

I have read some posts on here about peeps going to their doctors and when they have said they had switched from smoking to vaping for ex-number of months these doctors have actually put on their medical notes either non-smoker or ex-smoker.

IMO I am an ex-smoker even though I vape because I do not exhale any smoke, so how can I be a smoker when I do not produce any smoke whatsoever. The fact that I use nicotine is another matter entirely, I vape to get the nicotine, simple as that.

[kibbster]

Jun 12, 2014 12:54:40 GMT willy9b said:

OneDay - I think we would be very unwise to push for the promotion of vaping as a 'cessation aid' as we run the risk of getting mired in all the rules & regulations that the producers of patches, gum, sprays and those silly plastic dummies have to endure.

We all know vaping works far better and we're not shy of telling smokers how well it works, how to get started, and what to avoid.

Word of mouth is ultimately better than any advertising, IMO.

Yes because luckily we haven't been lumped in with smokers anyway and bogged down with massive over regulation over the definition of what we do.
????

Ecigs have done amazingly well with only word of mouth so far but we are a drop in the ocean.
Advertising could help give vaping that last push it needs to convert nearly all smokers.

Ridiculous thing is that everyone knows ecigs are the most effective way to stop smoking but we can't say it... In case they.. Do what?
What can they do that they haven't tried already and we are still here and still growing.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using proboards

[daggersvaper]

Jun 12, 2014 13:09:49 GMT OneDay said:

I'm not saying they should be advertised as an aid to stopping smoking, I just think it's crazy that the law prohibits them being described in that way.

I smoked. I tried giving up with all the usual methods. I failed.
I vaped. I never smoked another cigarette. I ceased. I succeeded.
Simples.

BIB. The same "journey" that I took. I went to stop smoking clinics, I used gum, patches, chapmpix and every other method they could come up with.

First time I used an ecig, that was it!.

[willy9b]

Well, kibbster, this paper: The Regulation of Nicotine Containing Products (NCPs) MHRA (12 June 2013) spells out why The Powers That Be want e-cigs regulated as medical products. For any vendor to make claims about them as an aid to smoking cessation simply plays into their hands.

Not mentioned in the paper (of course) are the strenuous efforts being made by Big Pharma to achieve this, as we currently threaten their revenue stream. The vast majority of producers of devices and e-liquid cannot afford the required process to achieve that status, so they would go out of business. This would leave Big Pharma (and the Tobacco industry, of course) as a monopoly (duopoly?) supplier, free to charge whatever the market will bear for an inferior product

Ridiculous thing is that everyone knows ecigs are the most effective way to stop smoking but we can't say it... In case they.. Do what?
What can they do that they haven't tried already and we are still here and still growing.

I think the point is that 'they' are still trying - vigorously - and we have to fight every spurious/ludicrous accusation thrown at e-cigarettes, equally vigorously! There is so much ignorance about e-cigs among the general public (and certain politicians!) and this is being fostered by propaganda attacks, mostly funded by Big Pharma and the tobacco industry. What 'they' will do, if we don't keep fighting and counter-lobbying, is impose draconian and inappropriate legislation on our little vice.

My two penn'orth...

[kibbster]

Jun 13, 2014 12:53:59 GMT willy9b said:

Well, kibbster, this paper: The Regulation of Nicotine Containing Products (NCPs) MHRA (12 June 2013) spells out why The Powers That Be want e-cigs regulated as medical products. For any vendor to make claims about them as an aid to smoking cessation simply plays into their hands.

Not mentioned in the paper (of course) are the strenuous efforts being made by Big Pharma to achieve this, as we currently threaten their revenue stream. The vast majority of producers of devices and e-liquid cannot afford the required process to achieve that status, so they would go out of business. This would leave Big Pharma (and the Tobacco industry, of course) as a monopoly (duopoly?) supplier, free to charge whatever the market will bear for an inferior product

Ridiculous thing is that everyone knows ecigs are the most effective way to stop smoking but we can't say it... In case they.. Do what?
What can they do that they haven't tried already and we are still here and still growing.

I think the point is that 'they' are still trying - vigorously - and we have to fight every spurious/ludicrous accusation thrown at e-cigarettes, equally vigorously! There is so much ignorance about e-cigs among the general public (and certain politicians!) and this is being fostered by propaganda attacks, mostly funded by Big Pharma and the tobacco industry. What 'they' will do, if we don't keep fighting and counter-lobbying, is impose draconian and inappropriate legislation on our little vice.

My two penn'orth...

They've already got the right to classify them as medicines with the TPD... But they haven't.
Not to say they won't but they've all backed away from med regs.
Ecigs are the new tobacco you know and tobacco isn't medical but does allow you to penalise and persecute the users which you can't if it's medicine.

I take any claims add to ecigs stopping people smoking as what they are.

The truth.

No doubt Glans, dickman and fatty McGoo will use any argument against us.
If we make quit claims or if we lie and say they aren't efficacious then they've got their bars covered either way imho.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using proboards

[lobeydosser]

Hi toots At the moment it is up to individual doctors to decide what goes on your records regarding Vaping as the NHS has not yet made a ruling on the subject.
I guess they are waiting for a government ruling on the subject.

I, for one will be disappointed, but not surprised if my "ex smoker" heading is returned to smoker.

Both the doctors and the senior nurses in our local practise are pleased that I am now vaping and are forever interested in taking about my vaping and asking how I am finding it, which is a positive sign.

Oh and by the by, I have just spent the last 30 days of saved fag money getting our house repainted.
So as well as not coughing anymore, I now live in a right smart looking house!!!!!