E-Cig Warranties and UK Law

[DiscoDes]

This post relates to Buying goods form a Vendor based in England and it is not aimed at ANY vendor in particular


I was just browsing the Forum when I noticed a post advertising amongst other things E-Cigs from a Vendor.

Against the price was the usual description and then there was the Warranty

It said:

"Warranty:
3 Day Warranty* (+ £0.00)
1 Month Warranty* (+ £1.00)
3 Month Warranty* (+ £3.00)"

I thought "3 day warranty for free? I thought under UK law you were covered for longer?"

Now I just wondered how this stands in UK Consumer Law?

I thought that all supplied goods could be returned faulty for "no quibble" repair or replacement up to 6 months from receipt?

And after 6 months you can still ask for a replacement or a repair as long as it's reasonable for the goods to have lasted this long. But you will have to be able to show there was something wrong with the goods at the time of sale?

So does anyone know where we stand on Warranties?

???

I looked at THIS SITE for information on returning goods.

[fred]

I would think that under the sale of goods act, a battery could reasonably be expected to last 3 months. This being the case, no warranty needed.
A battery would certainly be expected to last longer than 3 days, so not even sure if it's legal.

Care to share, Des? As that seems REALLY underhand to me.

[Deleted]

Just open a Paypal dispute, if you pay over the phone for anything pay with a credit card and they sort it

[DiscoDes]

Jul 21, 2014 17:44:00 GMT fred said:

I would think that under the sale of goods act, a battery could reasonably be expected to last 3 months. This being the case, no warranty needed.
A battery would certainly be expected to last longer than 3 days, so not even sure if it's legal.

Care to share, Des? As that seems REALLY underhand to me.

fred It was a general question as I have noticed that Vendors seem to have different stances with regards to Warranties but I was wondering if there was an overriding position under Consumer law.

As @agenthoover says if you paid by Credit card or PayPal then if a Vendor does not honour a warranty I'd try them, the CC co or PayPal will get the money back from the Vendor.

[Deleted]

I aint a big fan of Paypal but i have to say, whenever ive had a problem with any vendor (not just in the vaping world ) they have always come through, i had a problem with a vendor on ebay who had "No returns" in his listing, i had a problem with the item so contacted Paypal... their response was, Just because a vendor might write certain rules in his listing/add it does not mean its law, also, with regards to ebay, if someone has no returns in their listing the term no returns does not mean no refunds.

[Deleted]

Great topic of discussion Des. I'm not convinced that there really is a standard ruling for returning faulty goods. It seems to vary from vendor to vendor, shop to shop or whatever the case may be. Also, I think the dreaded words anywhere are "subject to our terms of agreement" or "subject to our terms and conditions". Usually you will find that the vendor/outlet has a get out claus in there that means you're up shit creek without a paddle. Whether that is legal or not, again, who knows.

[DiscoDes]

Jul 21, 2014 18:38:47 GMT striker42 said:

Great topic of discussion Des. I'm not convinced that there really is a standard ruling for returning faulty goods. It seems to vary from vendor to vendor, shop to shop or whatever the case may be. Also, I think the dreaded words anywhere are "subject to our terms of agreement" or "subject to our terms and conditions". Usually you will find that the vendor/outlet has a get out claus in there that means you're up shit creek without a paddle. Whether that is legal or not, again, who knows.

The thing is if the goods are bought here in the UK we are Protected by Consumer Law and you should never be "Up Sh*t Creek" despite what it says on a website. If they are a Vendor they HAVE to comply. At least we do have more than one avenue of re-course, firstly the Vendor then next PayPal then next the Credit Card company or Bank if it's a Debit Card. I'm sure that the "Banks" will not lose out so a vendor will not want it to go that far or else they may get the ability to take credit/debit cards or Paypal Revoked. So if you don't get satisfaction from a Vendor, take to to the next level.

However: It would be good to KNOW what our position is legally, it seems there are many Vendors out there that don't know what it is and even more Customers that don't know.

So I am trying to find out something definitive.

[JayJ]

Jul 21, 2014 18:04:59 GMT @agenthoover said:

Just open a Paypal dispute, if you pay over the phone for anything pay with a credit card and they sort it

I think paypal are quite anti ecig with their policies, well according to posts I've read in here. I'd be more than peeved if I had to get my card company involved although I never use a credit card it's good to know these companies have got the back of consumers. If a credit card company refunds you though does the retailer remain in pocket ?

Personally I think in 100 years paypal, google and the boss chaps at Microsoft will all have white fluffy cats and be ruling the world.

DiscoDes I think the sale of goods act is quite in depth but two things to remember are an item has to be fit for purpose and sold as seen isn't worth the ink it's written with unless it's clearly stated what problems a product may have. If there are further problems than what is stated you may still have a shout at refund or replace. The reason being is any faults an item had you may have been able to live with. Further issues might have been unacceptable and you would have refused the sale.

As far as I am aware you don't have to necessarily have to prove an item was faulty at the point of sale. If an item fails before a reasonable timeframe has elapsed and it was used in reasonable conditions then you have a shout. If a vendor sells a battery for use in a mod for example and it fails totally in a 2 weeks then it seems it wasn't fit for purpose as it would be reasonable to expect it to last longer than that.

It's all ifs and buts but personally I don't like the idea of a vendor charging for a reasonable warranty. A good vendor would expect to be selling decent quality products with minimal returns. Any returns he/she receives, well they should take that up with there supplier and not expect the consumer to suffer the loss.

Phew.... Jay

[norfolkphil]

Fairly comprehensive summary here.
www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/sale-of-goods-act

[Greg]

That doesn't sound right to charge for a warranty within those time frames. If I saw that on a website I'd avoid said company like the plague. Having said that I don't usually look at a vendors T&C page but I might just start. It would make MPEG think they have a history of supplying poor quality kit with many returns so attempt to enforce a policy that many would accept rather than challenge.
Poor show all round I'd say.

[fred]

OK- so having done a bit of research (sorry, using tablet, so no links), I have come up with :

Assume:
An average ego battery will recharge 300 times.
An average user will charge a battery once a day.

The sale of goods act will cover the battery for 300 days (~10 months)

If the battery fails for ANY reason within 10 months, I believe the Small Claims Court and the sale of goods act, would rule in the favour of the consumer. This threat should chivvy up any unscrupulous vendor. Theyd have to send someone to defend their case, at more cost to themselves, than replacing the faulty item.

Finally, I don't think the credit card claim is valid for items under £100.

Oops - not finally - got at least 2 more things! Under DSR (or whatever the new name is) you can return it up to 14 days for any reason.

A vendor can write what they want in their t+c, but English and Euro law will ALWAYS trump them.

This time finally, I agree 100% with everything Greg said up there.

[DiscoDes]

I suppose the "Nitty Gritty" of what I am getting to is: What is a reasonable Warranty on a Ecig?

For me if it has a integral battery like an Ego then I think the minimum warranty you should expect is 6 months.

For a VV device with a separate battery like a Vamo or a SVD also Mechanical Mods I would expect it to last for a year.

Does anyone think this is unreasonable?

[fred]

Jul 21, 2014 19:54:18 GMT DiscoDes said:

I suppose the "Nitty Gritty" of what I am getting to is: What is a reasonable Warranty on a Ecig?

For me if it has a integral battery like an Ego then I think the minimum warranty you should expect is 6 months.

For a VV device with a separate battery like a Vamo or a SVD also Mechanical Mods I would expect it to last for a year.

Does anyone think this is unreasonable?

I think you're bob on there!

And your certainly shouldn't be paying extra for any warranty.
Only cowboys on the money-grabbing-band-waggon would do this!

ps- my warranty ran out years ago 

[Deleted]

Jul 21, 2014 19:54:18 GMT DiscoDes said:

I suppose the "Nitty Gritty" of what I am getting to is: What is a reasonable Warranty on a Ecig?

For me if it has a integral battery like an Ego then I think the minimum warranty you should expect is 6 months.

For a VV device with a separate battery like a Vamo or a SVD also Mechanical Mods I would expect it to last for a year.

Does anyone think this is unreasonable?

No, think that is reasonable Des. But I know that a few local B&M stores tell customers that the ego kits only have a 28 day warranty on them, as per their terms and conditions. How legal that is well ? I guess I'm the same as you about a definitive. But when it comes to the crunch is there a definitive ?

[ronaldo]

Jul 21, 2014 19:54:18 GMT DiscoDes said:

I suppose the "Nitty Gritty" of what I am getting to is: What is a reasonable Warranty on a Ecig?

For me if it has a integral battery like an Ego then I think the minimum warranty you should expect is 6 months.

For a VV device with a separate battery like a Vamo or a SVD also Mechanical Mods I would expect it to last for a year.

Does anyone think this is unreasonable?

I think this is the timescale I would look to as I think its fair for vendors and customers and if I had something that broke down within this timescale I would certainly argue my case