Is the market for expensive vape gear slowly dying.

[OneDay]

Going back to the original question - Is the market for expensive vape gear slowly dying? - I think the answer has to be 'yes' for many of the reasons already given. But it has always been so. Take as an example, oh I don't know, let's say watches. In the very beginning watches were hand made by specialist engineers and only the very rich could afford them. The gold watch epitomised the ultimate luxury and gift. Gradually they moved to mass production and the bloke in he street could afford one. Then fakes and clones appeared, then electronic watches, then suddenly you could get a watch for tuppence and everyone had several. Do people still buy real Rolexes? of course. But a watch is a watch, it's function is to tell the time, and we can all afford them.

[Dan]

There is still a market for genuine gear, but it is a minute part of the market in comparison to what it was like before the Kayfun was cloned.

why would anyone in their right mind pay £130 for something when they can get a 1:1 copy for £30.. that's too much of a gap..

Some may argue that it comes down to quality.. 6 months ago I would've agteed.. now I'm not so sure..

so many people have sold their genuine gear to buy the clone version just put a few pennies back in the pocket.

Nemesis
kayfun
rose
squape

all £100+rrp for the genuine article, and the clones can be had for a tenner in some cases..

They work the same. Machining isn't quite as crisp but still acceptable..

I always thought that my 5 genuine kayfuns and my two dicodes danis were here to stay.. yet here I am with 3 rose clones and 3 sigelei 100w boxes..

sammy13

it isn't necessarily about the peak output but more the overall package..

all three of my sigeleis are running 20w+ with triple parallel coils and I'm still getting 2 days+ out of a charge.

I was changing batteries in my dani twice a day with such hungry builds as a comparison.

Not only do they offer more convenience, but it gives me a better performance than a mechanical can as well as having proper protection against shorts.. I get a regulated voltage from fresh charge until recharge time even with a plumeveil at 0.4ohms

I used said plumeveil at 0.4ohms (dualcoil with 0.5 kanthal) at 45w and still got a day solid out of the charge. Find me a more cost effective way of this diversity?

[geordie_vaper]

with the sig 100w the batterys are stacked though arnt they?

[Dan]

Oct 25, 2014 8:17:04 GMT geordie_vaper said:

with the sig 100w the batterys are stacked though arnt they?

They are, yes.

just means that you need to have at least one pair of cells and that you rotate where they sit each time you put them in..

I've labeled my cells to make it easier to keep track..

1st charge will have a1 in the 1st slot and a2 in the second slot, and then next time I install them after a charge a2 will be in slot 1 and a1 in slot 2.

This means that the cells are put under the same stress as each other throughout their life.

[geordie_vaper]

ahhh that makes scense about changing charging bays aswell wonder how people are going to cope with the x3 18650 god box mod thingy haha

[Dan]

Oct 25, 2014 16:06:35 GMT geordie_vaper said:

ahhh that makes scense about changing charging bays aswell wonder how people are going to cope with the x3 18650 god box mod thingy haha

Not the charger bays.. the bays of the device..

for the god it would be simple

123
312
231
123
312
231
etc
etc



you would need to invest in a new charger that doesn't share it current between its bays though..

nite core i4 for instance shares bays 1&3 2&4.

To make sure you get an even charge in all three cells you'd need to use something like the efest luc4 which gives it's current to all the bays separately.

[markus]

Oct 23, 2014 21:52:22 GMT VapingBad said:

To big a question for a poll from my point of view and a lot depends of the price of the original and if it is complex electronics. I think with mech mods and atomisers it is easier to judge the quality of a clone and tweak any short comings. I have a few kayfun clones that cost under a nine quid that I will happily attack with a drill and probably get a better vape that if I paid seven times the price for the original, but if the original was £30 I would have bought at least one. I love my clone Krakens they are quite simple to copy and cost less that a fifteenth of the price of an original and that is taking the pish IMO and cancels what ever guilt I may have felt. I was seriously tempted to get an Origen Genesis v2 for £100, but then the DNA40 was released so maybe one for for yule present.

I wouldn't get a clone DNA as the real boards are a reasonable price and I don't believe any of the clones would perform as well. But it is extremely difficult to be able to judge how good the clones boards are as reviewers don't seem to put them through their paces other than checking the output voltage and don't have time to assess the reliability.

I think that the high end manufactures need to reduce their prices as this is really an artisan in a small workshop that the poll applies to. And personally I don't won't to pay for a fancy box, ultra fine finish or engravings but they do not offer high quality no frills stuff.

What he said ^^^^^

Except for I did buy a Hana clone & didnt like it, but Im glad Ive sold it & got my money back & the only reasons I didnt like it was because of the firing delay & bearing style buttons (i prefer the flat style buttons on my IPV2)....& Im also glad I didnt cough up the £150+ for the original Hana only to find out it wasnt for me.
I also think the market for genuine vape gear will get cheaper as it gets even more popular & the technology improves along with the competition of other suppliers, I can remember paying £300 just for a CD player for my technics hifi system when they first came out...now look how much they cost!, We've come along way in the field of electronics since then so the price drop should be quicker now...(shouldnt it??).
I realise someone had to design the original but in my opinion that still cant justify the excessive prices some companies ask for some products, theres no way on this earth I'd pay over £100 for any single piece of vape gear & even at that money I'd still be thinking...should I really be spending that much?
I guess there will always be a top end of the market (like the ridiculously priced £600 vicious ant mod) but I think thats for the "keep up with the jones's people", even if I had loadsa money in the bank I still wouldnt pay that kind of money for a mod.
I dunno perhaps im just a bit tight fisted when it comes to spending money?.....but seriously £600 for a Mod ? Im sure its a nice bit of kit but...Jezus for that kinda money I'd expect it to help me out with a morning hard on !!!
I also guess it also comes down to what you like & think somethings worth, Years ago I paid £3900 for a pair of snakes from Germany & I know someone that paid $30,000 dollars for 1 snake he had imported from USA....now whilst I wouldnt pay that much for any reptile I'm sure theres plenty of people that would think we've both got a screw loose for paying that much for a snake!.....but like everything prices do come down....14 years on both of those snakes can now be bought for less than £200.

[GunJack]

hmmm......some notes/thoughts...

1. don't use mechs, so that's irrelevant (to me).
2. don't use rda/rba, so as above.

3. who makes an "original" vamo, and at what cost?
4. I'm with sammy13 on the "who needs big watts" train of thought, so makes buying v.cheap regulated mods possible & viable - if they break, they break
5. I've got a couple of clone protank-II and evods, work but just not quite up to the originals, but at the prices, work well enough,,

lots of relevant points made so far, but it's such a personal choice..... I personally am not bothered in the slightest about exclusivity or brand names in any walk of life, just want something that works well enough at a reasonable cost

[GunJack]

Oct 27, 2014 3:58:34 GMT markus said:

.but seriously £600 for a Mod ? Im sure its a nice bit of kit but...

...that's one if not two new cars for me.....

[Deleted]

I think that the number comments in this thread regarding not paying £100+ for gear that can be had for a fraction of that is proof that the market for high end gear is in decline.

A quick look at the classified section backs this up, high end gear is slow to move if at all. Yet there is a good turn around of clones.

Part of the reason is that we live is throw away, disposable times. Once again look in the classified section for gear owned for a mater of days or weeks being sold. The fact is that clones are cheap, easy come easy go items.

[piddy]

I've got a genuclone - didn't know such a thing existed till recently.

Basically - its a Hana Mini clone box but with a genuine evolve chip inside. Amazingly the chap that built it managed to get a 18650 battery in the tiny space.

[geordie_vaper]

Oct 25, 2014 17:00:37 GMT Dan said:

Oct 25, 2014 16:06:35 GMT geordie_vaper said:

ahhh that makes scense about changing charging bays aswell wonder how people are going to cope with the x3 18650 god box mod thingy haha

Not the charger bays.. the bays of the device..

for the god it would be simple

123
312
231
123
312
231
etc
etc



you would need to invest in a new charger that doesn't share it current between its bays though..

nite core i4 for instance shares bays 1&3 2&4.

To make sure you get an even charge in all three cells you'd need to use something like the efest luc4 which gives it's current to all the bays separately.

well what you put it like that it makes perfect scense

[tomvaper]

Two of the tired arguments against clones on (ahem) certain forums/FB groups that make me chuckle are...
"The sale of clones stifles innovation"... Really? With a new mod/atty literally coming out every week that argument doesn't hold much water.
And "with all your clones you could've bought one genuine"...um yeah,I know that but you've got one option and I've got 6 different options that perform brilliant for the same price cheers

For me the perfect example of a great clone is a copy of a certain £100 + uk made atomiser of which was expected to fail
miserably and couldn't be cloned anyway because it was too complex.
But to be quite honest the Chinese exceeded all expectations as it's brilliant (much to the disgust of the above forum) therefore a great indicator that the days of cheap shitty clones from certain manufacturers are long gone.

[alex05]

If the clone is good in quality, I'll go for it, it's much cheaper than the genuine after all.

[robby]

In the same way as I have a 10 year old Laguna Estate (which was a massive treat to me 5 years ago), my disposable income simply wont allow me to buy expensive mods. Having been in that financial situation for just about all of my life (who is playing those violins?) I would rarely buy a mod that cost me more than £50, and that isn`t very often either.

My current dahhhling is a Skok Bec Pro which cost me £52, such a wastrel I do get annoyed when a lot of the gear is described as cheap. It`s not "cheap", it`s inexpensive. If I were suddenly rich tomorrow I wouldnt rush out and buy a Provari3 to sit on the shelf because it wont perform noticeably better (if at all) than what I have now, and yes, it would probably last a lifetime with the little use it would get because I`d be scared of it breaking.

Not very long ago there was quite a bit of elitism in this game, it has largely gone now.

My interest tends to be driven by tecknoledgy (I can never remember how to spell that lol) The hands on nature of vaping has been a major influence on me staying off the smokes. The cost of vaping gear allows me to experiment a lot with all manner of vaping gear (clones obviously). The money that is spent on some of the original gear astounds me. The price of "original" simple drippers is a good example. Most of them are technically the same with either 1 or 2 coils in them. Cosmetically they may be a bit different. They are two coils in a bit of tubing with a top and bottom and a battery to heat the coils, and that`s it really. Very little improvement can be made to them no matter how much research someone puts into them. Talk of vortexes etc is just so much woffle. A lifetime of working in electro mechanical and electronic devices has taught me that. 

My next target is a DNA40 (clone) board, Someone will do it, patented or not. The DNA40 control system is technically the next big step forward. IMHO the biggest step forward for quality vaping since VW emerged in those heady Vamo days when we all went a bit crazy lol. I would also like to think that I have given encouragement by introducing inexpensive Chinese kit to a lot of new vapers to get to the point that they have forgotten that they have stopped smoking, it`s just happened amidst all the excitement that us gadget freaks are driven by. That`s how it was for me, and still is. 

The growth of vaping is largely due to the fact that it doesnt cost a fortune now to have good gear that will satisfy the nicotine addiction in a pleasurable way. My first half decent gear was a ego 650mah kit which with a spare battery cost my son about £45 as a present in those days. CE4s then were pretty crap really (although we didn`t really know it), so much has improved and that is because of clones and the number of people now vaping good but inexpensive equipment.

China makes most of this stuff these days and I`m very glad that they do, the price competition everywhere (even amongst Chinese sellers) more or less ensures that we are not paying over the odds for kit unless the UK distributor for stuff in the UK is Totally Wicked. A major reason why it is STILL so hard to find the Eleaf Istick in the UK. It`s one of the few originals I have lol. I would love to know what their mark up to UK sellers is. Just a little research is now all that is needed to find value as the Istick has proved. Anyone remember Vivi Novas? lol