A question about 15+ W mods

[robby]

Sounds very much like one of the newish Yihi SX300T chipsets, starting to pop up everywhere, have fun decoy

[Dan]

When i started vaping, I think it's fair to say that the most popular setup was a normal gapped coil using thin wire (0.20 kanthal for the most part) wrapped around a silica wick.

Good flavour and the wick was easy to work with. I spent most of my time between 5-9watts.

Then the microcoil and cotton boom came about. Coils last much longer than before and rewicking meant just swapping the cotton out for a fresh piece. I find the taste to also be much cleaner than silica could provide.

This convenience comes at a price though. Simply put, microcoils require quite a bit of power to work properly due to using thicker wire. 15w just isn't enough at times..

Don't get me wrong, thicker wire isn't a necessity by any means but it does make the coil more stable and easier to rewick. So we're back to convenience..

My go to mods are the innokin vtr and the sigelei 100w. Both give a lovely vape but i have to worry about my builds with the vtr.. 15w maximum limits the builds i can use.

I am a big fan of making coils that give the most possible surface area to the wick. I'm a flavour chaser. So most of my coils are either using twisted kanthal or parallel wires. Some of these builds just can't work properly with limited power..

i may only use my sigelei 100w at 20w but that 5w makes a big difference.. i also have the added convenience of fantastic battery life..

[Deleted]

Oct 27, 2014 10:14:26 GMT Dan said:

microcoils require quite a bit of power to work properly due to using thicker wire. 15w just isn't enough at times..

A quick question Dan why does thicker wire require more power?

Ohms law takes no account of wire thickness, eg to get 15w through a 1.0ohm coil requires 3.9v. That could be 0.20mm or 0.5mm, it makes no difference.

So is it purely the time it takes to heat the coil up? if so, then would the DNA40's feature of ramping up the power to heat up quickly, then falling back down to the set power negate the need for a higher power setting than is really needed?

So in practice say that with a particular juice 12w is a great vape, but you then you change the coil to one with the same resistance but much thicker wire. It's not so good because it's not heating up quickly enough, a higher power is then selected to compensate, as a consequence your not vaping at the optimum power for that juice?

Sorry, that turned out to be was more than one question

[Dan]

Oct 27, 2014 10:47:58 GMT @scooby said:

Oct 27, 2014 10:14:26 GMT Dan said:

microcoils require quite a bit of power to work properly due to using thicker wire. 15w just isn't enough at times..

A quick question Dan why does thicker wire require more power?

Ohms law takes no account of wire thickness, eg to get 15w through a 1.0ohm coil requires 3.9v. That could be 0.20mm or 0.5mm, it makes no difference.

So is it purely the time it takes to heat the coil up? if so, then would the DNA40's feature of ramping up the power to heat up quickly, then falling back down to the set power negate the need for a higher power setting than is really needed?

So in practice say that with a particular juice 12w is a great vape, but you then you change the coil to one with the same resistance but much thicker wire. It's not so good because it's not heating up quickly enough, a higher power is then selected to compensate, as a consequence your not vaping at the optimum power for that juice?

Sorry, that turned out to be was more than one question

In a nutshell @scooby, yes, the higher power requirement is purely because it takes more to heat a thicker wire effectively.

I'm not a massive fan of single thick wires as i much prefer to use multiple thinner strands. This gives me much more control over the heat generated vs the resistance in ohms.

for instance.

1 strand of 0.25 kanthal gives almost the same resistance as 2 strands of 0.18 kanthal that has been twisted together. It's also comparable to 3 twisted strands of 0.14

If you were to build a 1ohm coil using .25 and a 1ohm coil with twisted (2 strands) 0.18, set the device to 15w, the ramp up time would be considerably different. The thicker wire will be much hotter once its fully heated which would result in a hotter vape.

Battery life per charge would also differ as the twisted build would be more efficient (again, due to less ramp up time) in turn you could then turn the power down for better flavour and again extend time between charges.

It's not all about ohms law as this is only part of the bigger picture.

red astaire has been my adv since February and I've probably experimented with 30-40 different builds to get the best from the juice.. mostly with a kayfun.

The best by far was a double parallel 3mm coil using twisted 0.16.

3 strands to each wire, wrapped to 0.7ohms.

not 0.8, not 1.2, it had to be bang on 0.7ohms.

14.5w was ultimate sweetspot.

I have now moved from kayfuns onto the rose v2 and the twisted parallel build tastes nothing like it did in the kayfun. I've had to start over again.. I've already found that a triple parallel build using 2 strands of 0.25 and a twisted pair of 0.18 to be better for flavour. I still have plenty of other builds to try too..

The dna40 is a very welcome addition with regards to technology, but I'm of the opinion that if you take the time to experiment, you won't need temperature control. You can control the temperature using what we already have available..

[mart166]

So my 4 turns of 3 amp fuse wire around a cocktail stick is not really the way to go ?

Sorry could not resist that and only joking. You guys really study this stuff, makes me feel a bit inadequate as a 6 year vapor lol.

Seriously this thread has made good reading, you can see that some like me just vape, others treat it as a hobby and exploration, full credit both sides, thats driving vaping more mainstream.

Keep on vaping, clouding or whatever your delight

MP

[Dan]

Oct 27, 2014 11:41:52 GMT mart166 said:

So my 4 turns of 3 amp fuse wire around a cocktail stick is not really the way to go ?

Sorry could not resist that and only joking. You guys really study this stuff, makes me feel a bit inadequate as a 6 year vapor lol.

Seriously this thread has made good reading, you can see that some like me just vape, others treat it as a hobby and exploration, full credit both sides, thats driving vaping more mainstream.

Keep on vaping, clouding or whatever your delight

MP

This is the beauty of vaping mart166. It can be as simple or as complicated as you make it.

It's moved on so quickly with regards to what's available, it's grrrrrrreeeeeaaaatttt

[VapingBad]

The DNA40 pre-heat & temperature limit only works with nickel coils which are a lot thinner that Kanthal and so far I find it does things you could not control traditionally. In temp mode it dynamically controls the power to first heat the coil faster and then keeps the coil hot for as long as you want without overheating. Like Dan said bigger coils retain some heat and if you keep powering them they can continue to heat, especially if the wicking or air flow is variable.

I have set up 2 Focal Kayfuns with air holes drilled to 2.5 mm with 3.2 mm diameter coils about the width of the upper portion of the deck using Rayon wick, one with nickel and one with Kanthal and put them on a DNA40 and a DNA30 respectively at 15 W mainly. The vape from the DNA40 is much better IMO, the flavour is the same, the amount of vaper is the same, but it's how it is delivered the DNA40 has an almost instant hit that the DNA30 takes about a second to get up to when cold. I am more satisfied with a shorter vape and loving being able to run the tank completely dry then rinse the wick with a few drops of PG & nic, I run the tank for another 30-45 mins longer than I would dare without the temp limit and long after you can no longer see juice in the tank. I am still using my DNA30s and other devices and they are just as good as they have ever been, but the DNA40 is a considerably bigger step than VV to VW IMO. The difference you notice would depend on how you vape and once warmed up on a set up that has good wicking and air flow the difference is smaller.

I am still getting used to the DNA40, so my opinion may change, but so far it has far exceeded my expectations.

[VapingBad]

Oct 27, 2014 11:41:52 GMT mart166 said:

So my 4 turns of 3 amp fuse wire around a cocktail stick is not really the way to go ?

Sorry could not resist that and only joking. You guys really study this stuff, makes me feel a bit inadequate as a 6 year vapor lol.

Seriously this thread has made good reading, you can see that some like me just vape, others treat it as a hobby and exploration, full credit both sides, thats driving vaping more mainstream.

Keep on vaping, clouding or whatever your delight

MP

Whatever works for you is always the right answer.

If you do get tempted to go for a high power device a DNA would probably suit as they are the simplest things to use, you hardly ever do anything other than press fire, up or down and no waiting for them to start up you can vape instantly.

[Deleted]

It depends on the individual vapours preference .

I love the flavour of my eliquids at 17-19 watts on my kayfun / russian style tanks . I build twisted >1<1.5 ohm coils or single 10-12 wrap large surface area coils and these 20/30 watt devices really work well in being able to provide the power to hear up any build.

Re showing off ? You get that minority everywhere ie my iPhone 6 is better then yours, my pc has the worlds most advanced graphics card etc etc

[csmith10]

Oct 26, 2014 19:23:18 GMT @scooby said:

Not really a answer to mart166 question but a nod in the direction of djs comment: 'Some people like to show off. I'm not judging'

And the one by csmith10  'just for the fun of blowing big clouds!'

I've been vaping for about 18 months and have bought everything vape related online. A local store opened recently and was looking forward to visiting it, having a chat and asking questions face to face for the first time. On entering the place was full of vapour. I felt a need to clean my glasses, and as tried to chat with the 3 of them I was engulfed with clouds of vapour, the atmosphere was distinctly unpleasant (due to the clouds blown in my direction, the guys were fine) as I spoke to them.

Yes, I do think there is an element of showing off and it may be fun for them to blow big clouds but it wasn't fun for me.

I should probably note that any cloud chasing I do is in the comfort of my own home, I don't expect other to be exposed to my vapour against their own will! If I'm vaping in public it's generally outside with my kayfun which is hardly going to blot out the sun!

[Deleted]

Oct 27, 2014 15:07:26 GMT csmith10 said:

Oct 26, 2014 19:23:18 GMT @scooby said:

Not really a answer to mart166 question but a nod in the direction of djs comment: 'Some people like to show off. I'm not judging'

And the one by csmith10  'just for the fun of blowing big clouds!'

I've been vaping for about 18 months and have bought everything vape related online. A local store opened recently and was looking forward to visiting it, having a chat and asking questions face to face for the first time. On entering the place was full of vapour. I felt a need to clean my glasses, and as tried to chat with the 3 of them I was engulfed with clouds of vapour, the atmosphere was distinctly unpleasant (due to the clouds blown in my direction, the guys were fine) as I spoke to them.

Yes, I do think there is an element of showing off and it may be fun for them to blow big clouds but it wasn't fun for me.

I should probably note that any cloud chasing I do is in the comfort of my own home, I don't expect other to be exposed to my vapour against their own will! If I'm vaping in public it's generally outside with my kayfun which is hardly going to blot out the sun!

I can quite understand the fun of blowing big clouds csmith10 and I wasn't implying anything derogatory in your direction in quoting you, I was merely linking what djs and yourself said.

Like you I show respect to others when I (very rarely) vape in public. You can only show off if you have an audience and I got the impression that was what I was and they were doing it for effect.   

[decoy]

@robbie wow the vamo was a different beast from mine
i use my rose clone at about .5 ohm on a mech and i stuck it on this thing and turned it up and up and up 34 watts before a burnt taste (think something freaky might be happening with the vamo at 35 watts because all was fine at 34)discovered 2 things i like it about 25ish and i can vape my rose happly at 34 watts ok maybe 3 things im a idiot lol
the screen has all the info on it at the same time
boy is it heavy but you cant change the size
might be a good starter mod for peps
and it feel like a good quality bita kit

shame i dont like tube mods but if i can have it for right price i might use it to make a box mod ;p