DNA40 - Temp Control - Nickel Builds

[iLardyboy]

Did another rebuild about a half hour ago. Tried spacing again and it seems good so far. I did 10 wraps around 3mm and it came out at 0.15 ohms. I'm using an 80% VG juice and so far no TC cutting in vaping at 420F and 20W on the Subtank. Had it up to 25W but didn't try any higher, 20W seems to be my sweet spot.

I'm waiting on some HOL Chivalry coming in the post, I wonder if nickel and TC will cope better with this juice.

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2015 0:38:12 GMT iLardyboy said:

Did another rebuild about a half hour ago. Tried spacing again and it seems good so far. I did 10 wraps around 3mm and it came out at 0.15 ohms. I'm using an 80% VG juice and so far no TC cutting in vaping at 420F and 20W on the Subtank. Had it up to 25W but didn't try any higher, 20W seems to be my sweet spot.

I'm waiting on some HOL Chivalry coming in the post, I wonder if nickel and TC will cope better with this juice.

That is high VG so the flow velocity could well be affected, not sure how much though on these little atty's and through cotton, then we have heat that will start to thin the juice somewhere towards the coil. Think sucking through a straw on a Mc Donald's milk Shake compared to cola, then put a bit of cotton in the straw, the difference will be less. Let the milkshake melt a little even more so. Least we have one measurement now to monitor instead of a burnt hit, the heat source (coil) if it's not fed enough juice it will cut the heat and it's reporting this back to us. Everything else around is an unmeasured variable for us to work out. Is the DNA saying you're hitting that atty's limit and your you need larger/more juice channels, a higher flow rate of juice to fed the coil? ...ie two straws in your milkshake. 

[iLardyboy]

Jan 15, 2015 2:34:56 GMT @letsavit said:

Jan 15, 2015 0:38:12 GMT iLardyboy said:

Did another rebuild about a half hour ago. Tried spacing again and it seems good so far. I did 10 wraps around 3mm and it came out at 0.15 ohms. I'm using an 80% VG juice and so far no TC cutting in vaping at 420F and 20W on the Subtank. Had it up to 25W but didn't try any higher, 20W seems to be my sweet spot.

I'm waiting on some HOL Chivalry coming in the post, I wonder if nickel and TC will cope better with this juice.

That is high VG so the flow velocity could well be affected, not sure how much though on these little atty's and through cotton, then we have heat that will start to thin the juice somewhere towards the coil. Think sucking through a straw on a Mc Donald's milk Shake compared to cola, then put a bit of cotton in the straw, the difference will be less. Let the milkshake melt a little even more so. Least we have one measurement now to monitor instead of a burnt hit, the heat source (coil) if it's not fed enough juice it will cut the heat and it's reporting this back to us. Everything else around is an unmeasured variable for us to work out. Is the DNA saying you're hitting that atty's limit and your you need larger/more juice channels, a higher flow rate of juice to fed the coil? ...ie two straws in your milkshake. 

[br

When I put the atty on and choose new coil, it vapes with no TC cutting in. Then after I leave it for a while, the resistance has changed and TC does kick in. If I then take the atty off and screw on again, TC does not cut in. It's all a bit confusing.

[robby]

Jan 15, 2015 2:34:56 GMT @letsavit said:

Jan 15, 2015 0:38:12 GMT iLardyboy said:

Did another rebuild about a half hour ago. Tried spacing again and it seems good so far. I did 10 wraps around 3mm and it came out at 0.15 ohms. I'm using an 80% VG juice and so far no TC cutting in vaping at 420F and 20W on the Subtank. Had it up to 25W but didn't try any higher, 20W seems to be my sweet spot.

I'm waiting on some HOL Chivalry coming in the post, I wonder if nickel and TC will cope better with this juice.

That is high VG so the flow velocity could well be affected, not sure how much though on these little atty's and through cotton, then we have heat that will start to thin the juice somewhere towards the coil. Think sucking through a straw on a Mc Donald's milk Shake compared to cola, then put a bit of cotton in the straw, the difference will be less. Let the milkshake melt a little even more so. Least we have one measurement now to monitor instead of a burnt hit, the heat source (coil) if it's not fed enough juice it will cut the heat and it's reporting this back to us. Everything else around is an unmeasured variable for us to work out. Is the DNA saying you're hitting that atty's limit and your you need larger/more juice channels, a higher flow rate of juice to fed the coil? ...ie two straws in your milkshake. 

Makes perfect sense to me, double coiling certainly seems to perform better for me. You`ve got two straws to suck on in your analogy. It`s early days for me, but close wound coils seem to work better. I had one coil with close wound wraps and the other where they weren`t so close together and you could see a difference in vapour production with the atty top off.

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2015 9:12:49 GMT iLardyboy said:

Jan 15, 2015 2:34:56 GMT @letsavit said:

That is high VG so the flow velocity could well be affected, not sure how much though on these little atty's and through cotton, then we have heat that will start to thin the juice somewhere towards the coil. Think sucking through a straw on a Mc Donald's milk Shake compared to cola, then put a bit of cotton in the straw, the difference will be less. Let the milkshake melt a little even more so. Least we have one measurement now to monitor instead of a burnt hit, the heat source (coil) if it's not fed enough juice it will cut the heat and it's reporting this back to us. Everything else around is an unmeasured variable for us to work out. Is the DNA saying you're hitting that atty's limit and your you need larger/more juice channels, a higher flow rate of juice to fed the coil? ...ie two straws in your milkshake. 

[br

When I put the atty on and choose new coil, it vapes with no TC cutting in. Then after I leave it for a while, the resistance has changed and TC does kick in. If I then take the atty off and screw on again, TC does not cut in. It's all a bit confusing.

Happened to me many times, I think it's all down to the integrity of the connections. It's been said many times that a suspect connection anywhere and the DNA40 will effect how the chip performs. 

[iLardyboy]

Jan 15, 2015 10:41:43 GMT @scooby said:

Jan 15, 2015 9:12:49 GMT iLardyboy said:

[br

When I put the atty on and choose new coil, it vapes with no TC cutting in. Then after I leave it for a while, the resistance has changed and TC does kick in. If I then take the atty off and screw on again, TC does not cut in. It's all a bit confusing.

Happened to me many times, I think it's all down to the integrity of the connections. It's been said many times that a suspect connection anywhere and the DNA40 will effect how the chip performs. 

What do you recommend to fix it mate?

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2015 10:43:10 GMT iLardyboy said:

Jan 15, 2015 10:41:43 GMT @scooby said:

Happened to me many times, I think it's all down to the integrity of the connections. It's been said many times that a suspect connection anywhere and the DNA40 will effect how the chip performs. 

What do you recommend to fix it mate?

It's clever but think it's limited to reading through the wire/510, juice, gunk etc don't help so clean connections can only help. I said "think" because by £10 ohm reader seems more consistent at reading the ohms than these boards, have two running, my ohm reader has a 510 connection that's never been cleaned and has had more atty's screwed on and off than my mods? also have had coils over .1 apart and it's taken 3 goes for the board to pick it up and ask "new coil" have had a few burnt hits, I look at the ohms at that's why......only fix I have found is too to force it to read right, ie few drags take off make it re-read. 

think Mr bad said its measuring the ohms all the time and changing, not sure if that's a good thing or not at the moment because as I'll coils gunk up our ohms change and so will the maths the chip is working with. 

what the germans doing with vaping, they're much better than the yanks at this shit... Ha ha. 

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2015 2:34:56 GMT @letsavit said:

Jan 15, 2015 0:38:12 GMT iLardyboy said:

Did another rebuild about a half hour ago. Tried spacing again and it seems good so far. I did 10 wraps around 3mm and it came out at 0.15 ohms. I'm using an 80% VG juice and so far no TC cutting in vaping at 420F and 20W on the Subtank. Had it up to 25W but didn't try any higher, 20W seems to be my sweet spot.

I'm waiting on some HOL Chivalry coming in the post, I wonder if nickel and TC will cope better with this juice.

That is high VG so the flow velocity could well be affected, not sure how much though on these little atty's and through cotton, then we have heat that will start to thin the juice somewhere towards the coil. Think sucking through a straw on a Mc Donald's milk Shake compared to cola, then put a bit of cotton in the straw, the difference will be less. Let the milkshake melt a little even more so. Least we have one measurement now to monitor instead of a burnt hit, the heat source (coil) if it's not fed enough juice it will cut the heat and it's reporting this back to us. Everything else around is an unmeasured variable for us to work out. Is the DNA saying you're hitting that atty's limit and your you need larger/more juice channels, a higher flow rate of juice to fed the coil? ...ie two straws in your milkshake. 

I see what your saying @letsavit but how many atties were known to have problems with insufficient juice flow before the DNA40? It was always airflow that was the limiting factor.

How does the TP cutting in effect your vape experience? I know when I was plagued with TP cutting in the vape was thin and unsatisfying. It wasn't caused by lack of juice, I was getting gurgling and the occasional mouthful, so there was plenty of juice there but it was overheating and cutting the power. As you know opening up the air flow and lung inhaling solved it for me and I rarely get a TP now

IMO airflow has by far the greater effect on maintaining a set temp, you only need enough juice flowing to the wick to keep up with the evaporation rate.
 
Do you build your coils to a certain power to suit the atty your using it in?

Perhaps we should look at heating as opposed to cooling. Something to think about: Three coils all the same 0.15ohm resistance made with 0.20mm, 0.25mmand 0.3mm wire would require 7w, 14w and 24w to achieve the same heat flux. (from Steam Engine). In a my Kayfun and SquapeR I use the 0.25mm  0.15ohm coil at 13w 390-410f and I've gone from hating the DNA40 to loving it.

Edited to add temperature.

[VapingBad]

I think that it often displays a stored value for ohms because when my Origenny's connection goes bad the ohms displayed doesn't at first until you undo the atty, press fire so no atty found than refit and choose new coil. Not sure exactly what it's doing as it sometimes displays the change in resistance, maybe it's just resting resistance that it stores. It has to constantly monitor the resistance for the temp control to work, DNA30s did to a lot of Chinese boards don't.

How the pre heat works:
It works for up to 1 sec when firing in temp mode
It will up the watts until the coil is 100 F below the temp selected or the 1 second is up.

Coil calibration:
This relies on the coil and chip being at the same temperature, so don't put a warm coil on and expect it to work well at first.
When you fit a coil and it can tell it's nickel and not the last one you don't get a prompt, if it's not sure it asks.
After about a minute it goes into refinement mode where it fine tracks how the resistance is changing and will adjust it's self to become more accurate so if you did put a warm coil on it will sort it out after a few mins.

[robby]

Have you scoped it all happening VapingBad?

[robby]

What`s your TP set at @scooby?

[VapingBad]

Jan 15, 2015 12:33:59 GMT robby said:

Have you scoped it all happening VapingBad?

Ages ago, but got bored and wanted to vape, the thing is you have to keep cooling the coil if you want to plot it firing from cool and still not really got the hang of single shot on the OpenBE sw is the Hantek sw any easier?


The first is with a wick, the 2nd without, both 15 W, can't remember the temp setting or coil used I had just got it going.
E: you can see from the 0 V I was getting a lot of noise that makes it look much rougher than when you zoom in.

[robby]

No, it`s not easier VapingBad I had OPENbe working, but it stopped working and I cant get it to install again from the redownloaded tar file. I can see from your trace that the clone does not have as much preheat, but a very similar trace otherwise.

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2015 12:39:44 GMT robby said:

What`s your TP set at @scooby?

Sorry, I use 390 - 410f robby I've now edited the post

[robby]

Jan 15, 2015 12:46:25 GMT @scooby said:

Jan 15, 2015 12:39:44 GMT robby said:

What`s your TP set at @scooby?

Sorry, I use 390 - 410f robby I've now edited the post

I have moved up to 450f and I am getting a much fuller tastier vape now. My vapes were always thin at 410 or 420. Still not burning the wicks though. TP was coming in all the time, hence a pretty thin vape.