Nicotine – Not as dangerous or addictive as we thought?

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2014 18:46:36 GMT buggritt said:

Even as a non science graduate, mine is in history, I have to look at research then decide what I believe.
40 years a smoker. Tried cold turkey, seasonal reference slipped in, and was gagging for a cig in hours. Picked up an ego - never looked back.
I think the argument from "our" side is simple. I'm doing no harm, so leave me alone.

Same here, cold turkey a few times and vaping has been a walk the park in comparison, that's because I am still getting the one direct link, nicotine. Think the addiction for nicotine will be with me for life, except this time I have vaping to slip back into, not tobacco.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2014 18:46:36 GMT buggritt said:

Even as a non science graduate, mine is in history, I have to look at research then decide what I believe.
40 years a smoker. Tried cold turkey, seasonal reference slipped in, and was gagging for a cig in hours. Picked up an ego - never looked back.
I think the argument from "our" side is simple. I'm doing no harm, so leave me alone.

Agree completely 

[Bobsbeer]

Dec 10, 2014 18:59:14 GMT @kopiert said:

For the future of a TPD-vaping world look at this product - controlled, leak free, non-refillable, expensive and from big tobacco...available today.

I'm surprised BAT and the others aren't doing more.  The product you link to can be got in most chemists round my way.  Strange how fancy packaging and a big business sales force can get it into places a cigarette wouldn't be seen for miles.  Big tobacco must see the writing on the walls.  Sales of tobacco products are falling.  Sales of e juice is going through the roof.  Who makes the nicotine we all vape?  Big pharma or Big tobacco?  Or some other section?

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2014 18:58:03 GMT Bobsbeer said:

The other argument, that vaping is a gateway to smoking is probably so minute to be laughable. Are there any members on here who NEVER smoked tobacco before giving e cigs a go? I'm sure there might be the odd person, but given the complexity and overwhelming choice of equipment the average adult or child for that matter will throw their hands up in horror, and buy a pack of fags, or at the very least buy a disposable e cig. I have never tried one of those so can't comment on there quality or performance. But how many then go on to smoking? Anecdotal I know. But common sense would tell me exceedingly few. Kids do what's cool. And at age 58 I've no idea what's cool nowadays. But I don't see many kids wandering around with an e cig.

The brave thing for the government to do would be to ban tobacco, and subsidise e cigs by removing VAT on starter sets and e juice. Now that would make a difference. Not sure politicians are that brave.

I'm dreading the day Cheryl Cole walks into X factor with an ecig (or whoever is cool to the kids now days, I dont know...! ) hence my stance on not trying push being addicted to nicotine acceptable in any form, same as caffeine, sorry that's bolloxs...!  As long as the door is open for adult smokers if they so choose then that's enough and I'm yet to meet a smoker who's unaware of vaping yet so it needs no advertising. 

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2014 19:11:14 GMT Bobsbeer said:

Dec 10, 2014 18:59:14 GMT @kopiert said:

For the future of a TPD-vaping world look at this product - controlled, leak free, non-refillable, expensive and from big tobacco...available today.

I'm surprised BAT and the others aren't doing more.  The product you link to can be got in most chemists round my way.  Strange how fancy packaging and a big business sales force can get it into places a cigarette wouldn't be seen for miles.  Big tobacco must see the writing on the walls.  Sales of tobacco products are falling.  Sales of e juice is going through the roof.  Who makes the nicotine we all vape?  Big pharma or Big tobacco?  Or some other section?

Interesting Bobsbeer. I have seen their cig-a-lites but never seen the e-pen and these refills in a shop (then again I don't look that hard).

I think BT are beginning to take it seriously, but they have bought the cig-a-lite companies, and are now trying to get into the 'mod'-style market. The problem is they are big companies they can't move that fast - you saw how quickly Kayfun 4s were cloned. Philip Morris would still be debating about what biscuits to have in the meeting to decide if they should have a meeting about it. 

[Bobsbeer]

Thats true @kopiert. For good or ill the cloning market must be a real pain in the rear for companies innovating e cig stuff. It's difficult for any company to compete these days, but the likes of Kayfun, SMOK etc must be pissed off to see their creations being sold for 1/2 the price a few months after launching them.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2014 19:58:59 GMT Bobsbeer said:

Thats true @kopiert. For good or ill the cloning market must be a real pain in the rear for companies innovating e cig stuff. It's difficult for any company to compete these days, but the likes of Kayfun, SMOK etc must be pissed off to see their creations being sold for 1/2 the price a few months after launching them.

I would of thought a lot of money is awaiting from all directions to be invested into vaping but that will not happen I until governments state thier stance. 

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2014 19:29:53 GMT @kopiert said:

Dec 10, 2014 19:11:14 GMT Bobsbeer said:

I'm surprised BAT and the others aren't doing more.  The product you link to can be got in most chemists round my way.  Strange how fancy packaging and a big business sales force can get it into places a cigarette wouldn't be seen for miles.  Big tobacco must see the writing on the walls.  Sales of tobacco products are falling.  Sales of e juice is going through the roof.  Who makes the nicotine we all vape?  Big pharma or Big tobacco?  Or some other section?

Interesting Bobsbeer. I have seen their cig-a-lites but never seen the e-pen and these refills in a shop (then again I don't look that hard).

I think BT are beginning to take it seriously, but they have bought the cig-a-lite companies, and are now trying to get into the 'mod'-style market. The problem is they are big companies they can't move that fast - you saw how quickly Kayfun 4s were cloned. Philip Morris would still be debating about what biscuits to have in the meeting to decide if they should have a meeting about it. 

Companies the size of BT won't be cloned, no need as all their production will be in China anyway. 

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2014 21:00:58 GMT @letsavit said:

Dec 10, 2014 19:58:59 GMT Bobsbeer said:

Thats true @kopiert. For good or ill the cloning market must be a real pain in the rear for companies innovating e cig stuff. It's difficult for any company to compete these days, but the likes of Kayfun, SMOK etc must be pissed off to see their creations being sold for 1/2 the price a few months after launching them.

I would of thought a lot of money is awaiting from all directions to be invested into vaping but that will not happen I until governments state thier stance. 

True, but the big tobacco companies are hedging their bets
1.They have their e-cigarette brands. Which have tended to be cgi-a-likes but now looking to move into egos and mods (the link I put in in earlier is to a completely TPD compliant "mod")
2. They are also looking at the medically licensed market
3. They are also developing heated (rather than burning ) tobacco products - such as Ploom from JTI Link 

E-cigs are not going to be banned, but they may get very heavily regulated and the tobacco companies will want more regulation. True they aren't quite sure where legislation is going, the big Pharma companies are setting that agenda, but they are already betting a lot just on different horses.

[Bobsbeer]

Not sure that China manufacturing will stop cloning. Price will be the determinant. If BT decide to invest they will want big profits and cheap cost. Branding in e cigs is a new area and those with a premium brand image are being cloned. As a newcomer I realise that certain brands seem to command a good following. But the innovation is soon copied. Unless they have the mega bucks to protect their product and brands similar to what has happened in the phone market. But vaping, while popular, is still an underground market. Phone technology is complex and requires very high skills to innovate. E cigs are essentially very simple devices, but I'm sure that will change and is changing as electronics become involved. When I look at web sites such Fasttech the main thing I see is engineering skill. And easily duplicated in these days of CAD and CNC machining. An example would be SQuape Reloaded. Swiss engineering and a high price, cloud9vaping £116. I don't know how long it took, but Fasttech clone £15. I'm not saying its any good, just that the style can be easily replicated. I'm sure there are others.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2014 22:11:46 GMT @kopiert said:

Dec 10, 2014 21:00:58 GMT @letsavit said:

I would of thought a lot of money is awaiting from all directions to be invested into vaping but that will not happen I until governments state thier stance. 

True, but the big tobacco companies are hedging their bets
1.They have their e-cigarette brands. Which have tended to be cgi-a-likes but now looking to move into egos and mods (the link I put in in earlier is to a completely TPD compliant "mod")
2. They are also looking at the medically licensed market
3. They are also developing heated (rather than burning ) tobacco products - such as Ploom from JTI Link 

E-cigs are not going to be banned, but they may get very heavily regulated and the tobacco companies will want more regulation. True they aren't quite sure where legislation is going, the big Pharma companies are setting that agenda, but they are already betting a lot just on different horses.

Mmmmmm I am certainly well behind on all this and just butt my nose in and say it how I see it.

should I be picking the small freezer from argos this weekend and ordering my stash of nicotine sooner rather than later? 

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2014 22:41:13 GMT Bobsbeer said:

Not sure that China manufacturing will stop cloning. Price will be the determinant. If BT decide to invest they will want big profits and cheap cost. Branding in e cigs is a new area and those with a premium brand image are being cloned. As a newcomer I realise that certain brands seem to command a good following. But the innovation is soon copied. Unless they have the mega bucks to protect their product and brands similar to what has happened in the phone market. But vaping, while popular, is still an underground market. Phone technology is complex and requires very high skills to innovate. E cigs are essentially very simple devices, but I'm sure that will change and is changing as electronics become involved. When I look at web sites such Fasttech the main thing I see is engineering skill. And easily duplicated in these days of CAD and CNC machining. An example would be SQuape Reloaded. Swiss engineering and a high price, cloud9vaping £116. I don't know how long it took, but Fasttech clone £15. I'm not saying its any good, just that the style can be easily replicated. I'm sure there are others.

Totally see what your saying but that's my point the square reloaded is not Swiss engineering, it's not worth £116 in engineering terms, a rolex is Swiss engineering and something the Chinese cannot clone, the watch they get damm close too, the movement, not a chance. 

flip it this way then, a pay as you go phone for £30 with all its tech, or a CNC atty for £116. As long as the market is competitive (I know this is a debate in itself) and the item can be made in China to a standard that works and gives a warranty, it will. 

[Bobsbeer]

The SQuape was just an example of a brand being replicated with ease. Not an endorsement. I just happened to notice it. I'm sure there are others that are better examples. As with all emerging technology there will be innovation. E Cigs will no doubt be sucked in in time by major corps. That will only happen once the regulation drive has settled down. At the moment image is an issue. If that weren't the case I'm sure Apple would have a 510 port on the iPhone and come out with the iCig. They have probably already registered the name. lol

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2014 22:46:52 GMT @letsavit said:

Dec 10, 2014 22:11:46 GMT @kopiert said:

True, but the big tobacco companies are hedging their bets
1.They have their e-cigarette brands. Which have tended to be cgi-a-likes but now looking to move into egos and mods (the link I put in in earlier is to a completely TPD compliant "mod")
2. They are also looking at the medically licensed market
3. They are also developing heated (rather than burning ) tobacco products - such as Ploom from JTI Link 

E-cigs are not going to be banned, but they may get very heavily regulated and the tobacco companies will want more regulation. True they aren't quite sure where legislation is going, the big Pharma companies are setting that agenda, but they are already betting a lot just on different horses.

Mmmmmm I am certainly well behind on all this and just butt my nose in and say it how I see it.

should I be picking the small freezer from argos this weekend and ordering my stash of nicotine sooner rather than later? 

I saw your other thread on the freezer. Good idea. I hope that it doesn't all change - I hate the way big business and governments seem to get together to screw us over, because they can, and make profit at the same time. The e-cig market is a brilliant example of small guys running the market, showing real entrepreneurial spirit providing massive choice. Big business don't want that. I just want them to leave us alone. I can make up my own mind as to the risks - I don't need some fat git in Westminster, or Strasbourg or WHO telling me what I can and can't do.

[charliehorse]

Dec 10, 2014 23:11:23 GMT Bobsbeer said:

The SQuape was just an example of a brand being replicated with ease. Not an endorsement. I just happened to notice it. I'm sure there are others that are better examples. As with all emerging technology there will be innovation. E Cigs will no doubt be sucked in in time by major corps. That will only happen once the regulation drive has settled down. At the moment image is an issue. If that weren't the case I'm sure Apple would have a 510 port on the iPhone and come out with the iCig. They have probably already registered the name. lol

Don't even joke about that, if they get involved anyone with an i-cig will only be able to fill it with i-juice from the apple store and they will take out patents on everything and sue anyone that even thinks the 'clone' word