CLC and others

[nehctik]

After recieving charlie vape shops devilicious vanilla custard sample and trying it today I'd like to try and make one after looking in the recipes section I notice alot include cappellas vanilla custard, after looking on chefs vapour I notice theres two cappella sections, the standard and version 2. Am I correct in assuming its the standard vanilla custard?

Also I see alot include vanillin, which I don't know anything about, I seem to recall something about crystals or something. So if someone could explain, that would be great.

[lairey]

Yes nehctik, all of the recipes on here that call for Capella's will be the standard. It does include some chemicals, which are known to potentially cause popcorn lung with prolonged exposure, but that's what gives it it's creamy custardy taste. Most of us are willing to take the risk as we weigh it up against the many years we subjected our lungs to smoke.

Vanillin are crystals which you can get from Amazon and dilute in PG, however you can also buy it pre-diluted from many places, including Chefs Vapour link . It adds a creamy, slight vanilla sweetness to the mix

[nehctik]

Ok that makes sense, popcorn lung sounds terrible :S Next question, would perfumers apprentice french vanilla be a suitable replacement for the french vanilla deluxe as I can't find the deluxe in stock anywhere.

[jmw2309]

If i remember right french vanilla is french vanilla deluxe without the above bad stuff in it?

[Perpetua]

Jan 30, 2015 16:35:10 GMT nehctik said:

Ok that makes sense, popcorn lung sounds terrible :S Next question, would perfumers apprentice french vanilla be a suitable replacement for the french vanilla deluxe as I can't find the deluxe in stock anywhere.

So called ' Popcorn Lung ' is a result of prolonged, direct exposure to Diacetyl . . . I think we ought to make the distinction here between that particular chemical and the ones contained in French Vanilla Deluxe, Capella V1 Vanilla Custard, TPA's Vanilla Custard and any number of other flavourings that contain Acetoin & Acetylpropionyl which many of us use knowingly or otherwise.

The percentages are minute, made even more miniscule by dilution. I do believe it's important to be absolutely clear here nehctik, not just for your understanding but any casual readers of this thread who might unnecessarily be alarmed.

If you wanted some more background information so you can make your own decision, there's some reading to be had here:

www.ukflavours.com/content/8-e-liquid-info

shop.perfumersapprentice.com/t-FlavorWorkshopCustard.aspx

www.medicinenet.com/popcorn_lung_symptoms_and_causes/views.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronchiolitis_obliterans

And in answer to your question, yes you can use TPA's standard French Vanilla as a substitute for the Deluxe . . . but you won't get the same creamy elements as it doesn't contain Acetoin or Acetylpropionyl. So your end result won't be the same - but you might prefer your own ' personalized ' blend.

[nehctik]

So my understanding is popcorn lung is caused by prolonged exposure Diacetyl, not Acetoin & Acetyl propionyl. But can catalyse to diacetyl "certain tests have shown that under certain circumstances Acetoin can “catalyse” producing minute trace amounts of the molecule Diacetyl.". My question is what are the circumstances that would cause this, as it wasn't listed.

In the interest of casual readers it does state after the section I quoted

"This doesn’t mean that Diacetyl is guaranteed to be present but the risk is there that this can happen. For customers wanting to avoid even trace amounts of Diacetyl, then you should avoid the use of any flavours that contain Acetoin, even though once this is blended down into a flavour carrier e.g. Propylene Glycol or Glycerine the chances of this are very small but never the less the risk is still there."

[Perpetua]

Jan 30, 2015 21:13:00 GMT nehctik said:

So my understanding is popcorn lung is caused by prolonged exposure Diacetyl, not Acetoin & Acetyl propionyl. But can catalyse to diacetyl "certain tests have shown that under certain circumstances Acetoin can “catalyse” producing minute trace amounts of the molecule Diacetyl.". My question is what are the circumstances that would cause this, as it wasn't listed.

I've always believed it was a naturally occurring process, from what I've read . . . but I'll happily stand corrected as my knowledge is far from expert on the subject.

Ultimately, I think we can all only make our own personal decisions nehctik, based on the information that's available  . . . although not all Flavour Houses or ready made eliquids are as informative as they could be, on what they contain. So even if you avoid buying concentrates that contain Acetoin & Acetylpropionyl, you may still be using them unknowingly.

I can only speak for myself . . . and my decision has been to use them, given that the amounts are trace once diluted.

[nehctik]

I myself arent too worried about it but i some juice for friends and family, and while i don't care i'd rather know so I can inform them and they can make thier own decisions on it.

[lairey]

Perpetua

The last thing I would want to do was scaremonger, but wanted to let nehctik know the difference between original and v2, but was in a hurry, so didn't have the time to dig out the details.

[nehctik]

Looks like the clc journey will have to wait then as deluxe is out of stock.

On a different note a different concentrate I wanted say "This product is no longer in stock with those attributes but is available with others." any idea what that means, i.e does it mean not in this bottle size etc?