Even members of the government are beginning to get it.

[markm]

Although still guarded and quoting very out of date information
this is still a huge step in The right direction:
www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2015-03-11/227133/

[prr]

Agreed, I think this is actually a massive step in the right direction, possibly just possibly there could be open minds in the govt.

[igual]

Still pisses me off that they are allowing big t to make ecigs and pv, anyone that tries a cigalike pretty quickly moves either back to tobacco or to a decent non tobacco company owned device.
Yes the evidence is mounting and moving somewhat in the right direction.
However limiting the flavours and equipment will essentially destroy the open market and the devices we know work.
The TPD as we all know is a money grabbing free for all for euro pigs in Luxembourg.
Back handers central from big T & P.
Stock up peeps the end is nigh.

[djs]

Terrific!

I wonder

Do MPs equate "regulation" with "safer products" whereas TPD 2016 means "only a very few products available at great cost to users and suppliers"... ?

It's good the message is getting through though...

[Get Off My Cloud]

Mar 27, 2015 21:02:51 GMT igual said:

Still pisses me off that they are allowing big t to make ecigs and pv, anyone that tries a cigalike pretty quickly moves either back to tobacco or to a decent non tobacco company owned device.
Yes the evidence is mounting and moving somewhat in the right direction.
However limiting the flavours and equipment will essentially destroy the open market and the devices we know work.
The TPD as we all know is a money grabbing free for all for euro pigs in Luxembourg.
Back handers central from big T & P.
Stock up peeps the end is nigh.

Personally i'm happy to see tobacco companies starting to move into the vape market and i hope they are successful with it.
Because if they find another way to make money then they might just move away from producing and selling tobacco products completely.
I couldn't say it's never happened but i don't know of anyone who has gone from vaping a cigalike to smoking real tobacco but i do know people who have gone from smoking tobacco to vaping cigalikes.
Some people take up vaping purely to quit smoking and they have no intention on continuing to vape beyond that, they would rather do neither, others are quite satisfied with just using a cigalike when they get the urge to smoke so there definitely is a market for cigalikes.
I wish the tobacco companies though would get into the more advanced mods and stuff because that is where the money is to be made.
I couldn't give a crap about their past or present ethics if it kills off the sales of real tobacco i don't really care where my money is going.

[igual]

That is a fair point, I will admit I never looked at it from that point of view.

[Deleted]

Mar 27, 2015 21:18:39 GMT Get Off My Cloud said:

Mar 27, 2015 21:02:51 GMT igual said:

Still pisses me off that they are allowing big t to make ecigs and pv, anyone that tries a cigalike pretty quickly moves either back to tobacco or to a decent non tobacco company owned device.
Yes the evidence is mounting and moving somewhat in the right direction.
However limiting the flavours and equipment will essentially destroy the open market and the devices we know work.
The TPD as we all know is a money grabbing free for all for euro pigs in Luxembourg.
Back handers central from big T & P.
Stock up peeps the end is nigh.

Personally i'm happy to see tobacco companies starting to move into the vape market and i hope they are successful with it.
Because if they find another way to make money then they might just move away from producing and selling tobacco products completely.
I couldn't say it's never happened but i don't know of anyone who has gone from vaping a cigalike to smoking real tobacco but i do know people who have gone from smoking tobacco to vaping cigalikes.
Some people take up vaping purely to quit smoking and they have no intention on continuing to vape beyond that, they would rather do neither, others are quite satisfied with just using a cigalike when they get the urge to smoke so there definitely is a market for cigalikes.
I wish the tobacco companies though would get into the more advanced mods and stuff because that is where the money is to be made.
I couldn't give a crap about their past or present ethics if it kills off the sales of real tobacco i don't really care where my money is going.

I see where you are coming from but i feel if big t got control of the ecig business it would just be a matter of time til they quadruple their prices.

[Get Off My Cloud]

Mar 27, 2015 21:47:15 GMT @tubthumper said:

Mar 27, 2015 21:18:39 GMT Get Off My Cloud said:

Personally i'm happy to see tobacco companies starting to move into the vape market and i hope they are successful with it.
Because if they find another way to make money then they might just move away from producing and selling tobacco products completely.
I couldn't say it's never happened but i don't know of anyone who has gone from vaping a cigalike to smoking real tobacco but i do know people who have gone from smoking tobacco to vaping cigalikes.
Some people take up vaping purely to quit smoking and they have no intention on continuing to vape beyond that, they would rather do neither, others are quite satisfied with just using a cigalike when they get the urge to smoke so there definitely is a market for cigalikes.
I wish the tobacco companies though would get into the more advanced mods and stuff because that is where the money is to be made.
I couldn't give a crap about their past or present ethics if it kills off the sales of real tobacco i don't really care where my money is going.

I see where you are coming from but i feel if big t got control of the ecig business it would just be a matter of time til they quadruple their prices.

A price i'm happy to pay if it saves lives and suffering.

[buggritt]

There's a lot of holier than thou floating about here. People smoke. People play dangerous sports. People drink, some to stupid excess. People shove ferrets down their trousers. It's a free country.
Tobacco companies are never going to stop producing tobacco products. Why should they? A load of ex smokers tut tutting about tobacco companies is a bit rich.

[lairey]

Mar 27, 2015 22:13:32 GMT buggritt said:

There's a lot of holier than thou floating about here. People smoke. People play dangerous sports. People drink, some to stupid excess. People shove ferrets down their trousers. It's a free country.
Tobacco companies are never going to stop producing tobacco products. Why should they? A load of ex smokers tut tutting about tobacco companies is a bit rich.

Personally, I think ANYONE, ex-smokers or not, tut tutting at the tobacco companies, that add additional addictive chemicals to their products, purely to keep people hooked, is well and truly justified and in fact, should be applauded.

[archiecat]

Also a lot of us would choose not to get involved, or get rich, from an industry that is known to kill or seriously disable people.
Even if we have been stupid enough to be customers.

[Get Off My Cloud]

Mar 27, 2015 22:13:32 GMT buggritt said:

There's a lot of holier than thou floating about here. People smoke. People play dangerous sports. People drink, some to stupid excess. People shove ferrets down their trousers. It's a free country.
Tobacco companies are never going to stop producing tobacco products. Why should they? A load of ex smokers tut tutting about tobacco companies is a bit rich.

Not me, i don't want to force tobacco companies to stop selling tobacco i want them to come to that decision voluntarily and if them being able to make money from a safer product is way for them to reach that decision then i'm all for that.
I'm a pragmatist i know they're not going to quit selling tobacco unless they have an alternative source of profit.
Also i don't think tobacco companies are in the game of selling tobacco for anything so noble as providing the product to people for their freedom, they're in it for profit plain and simple and i don't have an issue with that.

It's also a reality that's clear to tobacco companies that vaping is competition and there are two ways they can address that competition, they can either do everything within their power to make vaping an unviable business through legislation etc or they can get into that market themselves and promote it.
Personally i would prefer more of them took the second option.

I do think it's pretty unrealistic to expect them to move completely away from selling tobacco while there is still a market for it but over a prolonged period i can see the market for tobacco diminishing and vaping will have the effect of mitigating the number of deaths and health issues associated with smoking.

I may not be spending the kind of money on vaping that i did on smoking but the majority of the money i was spending on tobacco wasn't going to the tobacco companies anyway it was going to the government which is the real concern to me because the government aren't going to give up their cash cow without an alternative source of revenue.
I think the tobacco companies can make good profits from vaping trouble is the government can't.
That's why they're so determined to classify vaping as the same as smoking.

[markm]

The reality is ecigs are a first world solution, where tobacco market has been shrinking anyway.
For the tobacco companies there is still a fast growing market in the third world.
That's where their main focus is, and will be for the next few decades. First world is just
A sideshow for them these days.
It's infuriating that tobacco control, spending taxpayers money, are focussing on developed nations
Where they have taken things about as far as they could reasonably expect. Despite their projections
Of a smoking end game, smoking is still growing worldwide. The puritans are having no effect on
Global smoking but would prefer to waste their efforts persecuting vapers. I guess the conference hotels
Have more stars and they don't have to deal,with genuine poor people, with more pressing health issues like
Clean water.

[buggritt]

Mar 27, 2015 22:52:13 GMT Get Off My Cloud said:

Mar 27, 2015 22:13:32 GMT buggritt said:

There's a lot of holier than thou floating about here. People smoke. People play dangerous sports. People drink, some to stupid excess. People shove ferrets down their trousers. It's a free country.
Tobacco companies are never going to stop producing tobacco products. Why should they? A load of ex smokers tut tutting about tobacco companies is a bit rich.

Not me, i don't want to force tobacco companies to stop selling tobacco i want them to come to that decision voluntarily and if them being able to make money from a safer product is way for them to reach that decision then i'm all for that.
I'm a pragmatist i know they're not going to quit selling tobacco unless they have an alternative source of profit.
Also i don't think tobacco companies are in the game of selling tobacco for anything so noble as providing the product to people for their freedom, they're in it for profit plain and simple and i don't have an issue with that.

It's also a reality that's clear to tobacco companies that vaping is competition and there are two ways they can address that competition, they can either do everything within their power to make vaping an unviable business through legislation etc or they can get into that market themselves and promote it.
Personally i would prefer more of them took the second option.

I do think it's pretty unrealistic to expect them to move completely away from selling tobacco while there is still a market for it but over a prolonged period i can see the market for tobacco diminishing and vaping will have the effect of mitigating the number of deaths and health issues associated with smoking.

I may not be spending the kind of money on vaping that i did on smoking but the majority of the money i was spending on tobacco wasn't going to the tobacco companies anyway it was going to the government which is the real concern to me because the government aren't going to give up their cash cow without an alternative source of revenue.
I think the tobacco companies can make good profits from vaping trouble is the government can't.
That's why they're so determined to classify vaping as the same as smoking.

Now that is the most well reasoned post I've read on the subject. Agree with it all.

[buggritt]

Mar 27, 2015 22:31:03 GMT archiecat said:

Also a lot of us would choose not to get involved, or get rich, from an industry that is known to kill or seriously disable people.
Even if we have been stupid enough to be customers.

As a country we benefit financially from selling weapons to monsters. Cheap clothing made in third world countries damage the lives of thousands of kids across the globe.We drive cars which kill and disable daily. Never happened to me, but nor have any of the deadlies from smoking. The list of wrongs in capitalism is endless
And if tobacco companies are the only ones to be allowed to sell vaping gear, you will be buying from them or giving up altogether.
Nobody ever shoved a cig in my mouth and forced me to smoke it. No nanny state needed for me.